Detroit, Michigan Remarks in a Panel Discussion and Question. and-Answer Session at a Public Policy Forum Sponsored by the Community Services Administration.

THE PRESIDENT. First of all, let me say that I'm very grateful for a chance to come back to Detroit. I was here the first time as Governor in 1973 and then came back again as Governor in 1974. Then in 1975 I came back several times during the campaign and not--well, more than once in 1976.

This is a regional meeting, extending in many directions from Detroit--suburbs and urban areas--with representatives here who bring to this panel table a wide range of interests and also experience and also advice for me. The purpose of the meeting is to make sure that I, as President of our great country, am able to learn in a human way about the special needs of people who have quite often been most deprived, most alienated from the sometimes distant Government in Washington, and to see from a personal perspective how well-meaning programs that are poorly administered don't serve the needs of those who need. the services most and sometimes how Presidents and Members of Congress, Governors and even mayors overlook opportunities for providing a better life for our people.

I'm very proud of Detroit. This city has come a long way. Two years ago the unemployment rate here when I came was about 25 percent--23.4 percent. This past month it was down about 8 or 9 percent, which is still too high. But to have that drastic a reduction in unemployment is a very great credit to those who serve you so well.

I was living in Atlanta as Governor, and Detroit was known as the murder capital of the Nation. In the last 2 years alone, with the good work of your mayor and with close cooperation from officials in the suburban areas, the State government, and particularly the police, the murder rate has been reduced 64 percent. And the crime rate in Detroit in the last year has dropped 21 percent--the greatest reduction in crime of any major city in the whole country.

So, these achievements are notable, but we're here today not to brag on one another but to point out how we can make our people have an even better life.

The format for this meeting has already been described to you, I'm sure, but I will call on each member of the panel just to comment briefly on your own background and then bring up an issue that you'd like to .discuss with me. I don't claim to know all the answers. But I think in this general discussion that we'll have, I think all of us are quite relaxed at this point. This will probably take about an hour. I think many of the issues that have been on the minds of the audience who will later participate will have been answered. But then we'll turn to the audience members, who are not around the table, for additional questions.

I want you to know that, again, I'm here as a student, first of all, to learn how I can be a better President and, secondly, to let you understand what the present and future services might be, coming from your Federal Government.

I'd like to call now on Mr. Lawrence Hall to make a brief comment and perhaps ask a question, and then we'll go around the table.

Lawrence, it's good to have you here.

PANEL DISCUSSION UNEMPLOYMENT

MR. HALL. Thank you, Mr. President. My name is Lawrence Hall. I'm from Gary, Indiana. I'm 56 years old, and I'm an unemployed steelworker. My views about the problem--it's a personal problem, and I'm only speaking for the other 1 million unemployed.

I'm in a desperate situation now. I need a job. I'm at the age now where I can't seek other employment. The type of work that I have--I was unable to prepare myself to do something on the side. I'm not a homeowner; I'm a home buyer. I have four children. I have one daughter at home; she's just 10.

I have 37 years' service in the steel mill. I work at Youngstown. This is one of the places that has been completely--5,000 people put out of a job, just overnight. What are they going to do? We're in the same situation in Gary, Indiana. We finished up working last week. There's not a piece of material to be worked in. They welded up our operation. "Go home; we'll call you; don't call us."

This money that we're able to get through subpay and et cetera--it's only 85 percent of our earnings. To those of you who don't know, 85 percent sounds pretty nice. But when you lose 15 percent of your earnings, one week you can make it, but when it goes over a period of 3 years, this means a house note every month, your food every month, your utilities every month that you're losing. You can't make any plans. You don't know how you're going to work.

My situation is that I feel that--the terminology is I'm being ripped off by the company I've dedicated my life to, trying to give them a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. And they say now, "The only way I can give you a job is the Government has got to subsidize you."

I feel frustrated because my union has not been able to help me to prepare myself or to tell me these things are going to happen. And then the leaders that I talked to--there are so many problems in the world--I don't say they're not concerned, but they don't realize how desperate I am, that I don't feel much like talking about energy and foreign policy. I'm concerned about how am I going to live. And I don't want to take up as much time as I'm allowed, but these are my personal feelings. I can't be too concerned about other things when I have a daughter to raise and I don't have a job and I'm 56 years old.

THE PRESIDENT. Very good statement. Many of us in Government, when we see a 6- or 7-percent unemployment rate, are quite pleased if a year ago it was $ or 9 percent. And we tend to forget the human suffering and the challenge and the loss of self-respect and a deep fear about the future that comes with someone who is, as you say, 56 years old, who has worked all your life in one industry, and now is unemployed.

I also have a 10-year-old daughter, as you know. She was 10 this week. So, I feel a kinship with you. I can point this out to you to begin with: You are one of the fortunate unemployed, in that the steel industry is a special impacted industry and there are special assistance programs for you. But that's not the way you want to live. You want to earn your own living by working and not get even the assistance that comes from the impacted area.

I had a meeting this past week with executives, your own labor leaders, the Members of Congress who represent the steel industry, who came to the Oval Office, to the White House, to meet about what we are going to do concerning the steel industry itself.

One of the problems, obviously, is a worldwide semirecession. The growth rate in our economy, the construction of buildings, the construction of homes, the construction of machinery is not growing as rapidly as it has been sometimes in the past, and the order for steel from European, Japanese, and American sources is just down. I think that we will see in our own Nation an increasing demand for steel. Our housing construction now is the highest it's been in many years. Over 2 million housing units per year is the present rate. I think, with passage of a new energy bill--although you're not concerned with energy right now; you're concerned with a job--will provide increasing demands for steel.

One of the first things that the steel executives and labor leaders told me when I came into the room to meet with them was that they don't want to build a wall around our country. They don't want import quotas. They don't want high tariffs, because that hurts the trade on which our Nation relies so heavily. But they want to stop the dumping procedures that have been in place for steel this year and in years past where producers of steel in other nations, in Europe and Japan, for instance, sell on our market against the law, I might say--steel at a price below what it costs them to produce it.

And we can stay competitive with other nations if they comply with our law. So, that's one thing that I can promise that we will do, is enforce the antidumping laws, cut down on the illegal competition from overseas, continue the impacted area or industry programs that will keep you at least on your feet until we can get you another job, and with our public works programs, which I'll discuss later after some other questions, with our housing programs that we're keeping going, and also with our new tax reform measures that will be forthcoming next year that will stimulate the economy, I believe we have a good chance, Mr. Hall, to put you back to work. I'll do my best on this subject. And every time I consider a measure that might relieve the unemployment question, you're one of those people that I'll be thinking about.

Mrs. Emma Molina.

MIGRANT WORKERS

MRS. MOLINA. My name is Emma Molina, and I'm the mother of 10 children, and I'm an ex-migrant. Presently, I'm minority affairs director with the Community Action Agency in Findlay, Ohio.

Mr. President, my hopes today are to make you aware of the problems of the poor people that I have come to represent from my area. They could not be here personally, but I will try to speak for them.

First of all, their needs in the housing area. Now, in our area housing is so poor, poor people are forced to live in substandard homes because they have no choice. And they're asking why, if there are so many projects that are designed to help the low-incomed, why can't it be for everybody. In our county we have not been able to get our people interested in forming a metropolitan housing commission, and so we cannot bring projects for the low-income. So, they are forced to live in very poor housing.

And another area that we're lacking is in minority employment. Minorities, blacks, Mexican Americans--when they come to the employment agencies, they're not given the opportunities for the good jobs. If you're black, you're offered jobs to clean. If you're Mexican American, you're offered the farm work. And I believe we have the potential also to hold good jobs if we're given the opportunity.

And also the elderly people, poor people, and minority people, they're left out of the good programs that are offered to them. I have contact with different senior centers, and participants come from backgrounds--like they're professionals, maybe teachers or people of this kind. But low-income people are not really taking advantage of the programs that are designed to help them.

And also the migrants in my area, they have many problems. When I was a migrant 20 years ago, Mr. President, the conditions were bad. And I have worked with migrants as a volunteer and as a staff person, and I see the same problems. There is no change in wages, in housing. Housing codes are not being enforced, and the wages--20 years ago I used to pick tomatoes--14 cents a basket. And today, migrants are still being paid 17 cents, which means there's only 4 cents difference. And all these things I have brought to you because you are the hope of the poor people, and you know in your own capacity what you could do for poor people in this country.

So, I'm speaking for the poor people all over the country, and we appeal to you for your help.

Thank you very much.

THE PRESIDENT. I don't think anybody could make a better speech, if they prepared it for a long time, than you and Mr. Hall have made. And what makes you so able to express yourself is because you've been there as a migrant worker and you see at first hand what a job means--first of all, what a lowpaid job means, secondly, what an absence of housing means. And even not having a home community aggravates all those other problems.

For someone who is poor, who is a minority member of our society, but who has a stable home, there are services available to them, like public health and so forth, that are not there if you are a migrant. One of the things that we are doing, for instance, is to make sure and to require that Medicaid and Medicare provisions be made available to all migrants, which has not been the case in the past.

I've picked tomatoes by the hamper myself, and I've picked cotton, and I've shaken peanuts. And my first home when I got out of the Navy was in a public housing project. And I understand, at least to some degree, the environment that you have described.

We've made some good progress already in this first 9 months or so that I've been in office. The Congress has cooperated, and I think the Nation will begin to feel the benefits of what we've done in the next few months in an increasing degree.

For instance, I just signed this month a housing and community development act, which in 3 years will provide about $12 1/2 billion to improve the quality of housing, both low-rent housing for poor people and better loans, community development projects, and funds that will be made available to mayors and others to provide housing.

We also have put money into programs, which are just now being felt, to put our poor people back to work. In the Comprehensive Education and Training Act, for instance, and in the public works projects, many of these programs are designed specifically for minority groups.

Detroit, just to take an example, has received approval already for, I think, $67 million under the public works projects-money--and for the first time in the history of our Nation, 10 percent of that money has to be spent with minority contractors or builders. This means that the Spanish-speaking, the black, and other minority groups can participate not only in the benefits of projects once they get finished but also can provide the workers to build those projects, which is a step in the right direction.

One of the things that's concerned me very much is that among poor people we have a very inadequate health care system. Quite often a medical doctor will not be available to serve transient workers or others. And I was talking to Senator Herman Talmadge yesterday about a bill that will, for the first time, permit the service of what's called physician extenders, who are men and women who have training a little bit above and beyond a registered nurse, who can act as a medical doctor when doctors themselves are not available. I would predict to you that the Congress will finish their action on this legislation this month, and I'll sign it into effect, obviously, as soon as it's completed.

We have put into effect, to close out my answer, under Ray Marshall, who is the Labor Secretary, I think a much better way to place both local workers who are unemployed and also migrant workers in contact with the jobs that are available. I think he's the kind of person who will get out with his workclothes and get to know people who really are suffering because of the lack of services and jobs. Pat Harris, the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, is the same way. She's Been here and been many other places to try to see how we could improve the housing area.

So, we have made some first major steps toward meeting the needs of the people that you represent, Mrs. Molina. And I believe that in the future, after assessing what you've said, we can make even greater steps for those people.

I might say, before the next panelist starts, that I try to take notes, as you've mentioned the housing and minority employment and migrant workers problems. And if any of you ask me a question that I fail to answer, then don't hesitate to follow up, because I'll try to keep notes and answer all the questions.

Father Hernady came here from Hungary in 1950, and I'm very glad to be with you today, Father. And it's time for you to comment.

NEIGHBORHOOD REVITALIZATION

FATHER MARTIN HERNADY. Thank you,

Mr. President. I'm Father Hernady from Toledo, Ohio. We had the privilege of having President Carter in our place, in Americas' nicest ethnic neighborhood[inaudible].

THE PRESIDENT. I will never forget.

FATHER HERNADY. We'd like to have you back again. I come from a typical ethnic working-class neighborhood in the Midwest. I speak for the people of the neighborhoods who decided to stay in the cities instead of fleeing to the suburbs. They decided to stay in the city because they loved the city and the place of their heritage, the place of their roots. And they joined the precious heritage of their forefathers, which is still strong in our neighborhoods. They are determined that their city will not become black, brown, and broke, as Monsignor Baroni ¹ says. It could happen if the practices of financial institutions, the real estate industry, big business, and the local and State and even the Federal Government are not stopped.

¹ Geno Baroni, Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Neighborhoods, Voluntary Associations, and Consumer Protection.

During your campaign, Mr. President, you encouraged us to revitalize our neighborhoods, and we were encouraged to do so. But at the present time we wonder about the depth and the extent of the commitment of your administration to the cities. As we hear of your proposed urban development policies, we are afraid that your administration perceives the urban problem as only a black problem, as a problem of totally devastated areas, such as the Bronx in New York. We are also concerned that the revitalization of the downtown areas of our cities, often with massive new programs, sounds suspiciously like the urban renewal programs in the sixties. We wonder how the new action grants will affect our cities, and are they going to reach people or only their industry or business?

We believe that young people should stay in our neighborhoods. At the present time the enticements of the banking industry are sucking our young people to suburbia.

I would like to demonstrate it with an example. I am in this parish 23 years. And when our boys returned from the war, from Korea and Vietnam, they wanted to buy a home in our neighborhood, let us say, for $12,000. In order to 'buy a home in a good ethnic neighborhood they had to have 50 percent down, $6,000. In the meantime, if they had only $500, they could go to suburbia and buy a home for $25,000.

And they were always told, "How can you invest your money in an old neighborhood?" They couldn't understand that those people love the roots of their ancestors.

We are dreaming of a community where people can walk to church. We are dreaming of a community where our children are walking to school, when the child can go down three, five blocks, and he knows everybody, Mr. Naggie or Mr. Kovach, and the parents don't have to be afraid that somebody might pick him up. We are dreaming of a neighborhood where people know each other on a first name basis.

This is a beautiful life, what our people enjoy. And this is a beautiful way of life that we would like to keep. And we resented in the past when some people tried to antagonize various ethnic neighbors, like the blacks and the Hungarians and the Polish people. We are not enemies; we are friends. And we want to combine our efforts to revitalize our neighborhood, our cities. We have to realize there are no cities in America if you don't have neighborhoods. And if you don't have nice, sound neighborhoods, you are not going to have nice family life in our Nation.

We wonder again how your banking policy is going to affect our neighborhood, whether the banking industry is going to be people oriented or only for business or for industry? We would like to see that they would invest money in people whom we love very much.

THE PRESIDENT. Very good. Thank you Father.

As Father Hernady said, I have visited his neighborhood, and, as some of you may remember, I got in trouble during the campaign talking about ethnic purity or ethnic heritage. I think it's very important for us Americans who are black or Spanish-speaking or Hungarian or Polish or Irish to have a continuing pride in our background, in our history, in our characteristics as human beings, and also in the preservation of the quality of our neighborhoods. I'm proud of where I live, the little town of Plains, Georgia. And I know that all of you, to the extent that one is proud of a family or community or a home, the quality of that family or community or home will be maintained. When pride leaves, then the neighborhood deteriorates.

And I think one of the greatest contributions to our country, in my lifetime at least, has been the pride of black people in their own heritage and a refusal to accept the proposition that was put forward by many that there was an inferiority in being a minority. There's just as much pride and strength in a minority group of any kind as there can be in a majority group.

We have a very deep concern about the destruction of the neighborhood fiber and strength. You mentioned banking. In this bill that I signed last week, which is now being put into effect by Housing and Urban Development, there is a tight constraint that will prevent the red-lining practices that have been implemented before. This was an amendment placed on the bill by Senator Proxmire. And I believe that that, combined with a voluntary effort to bring in the State and local governments, the Federal Government, and the private business leaders in a community, is the best way to stop a neighborhood deterioration.

Here in Detroit, for instance, there's a superb example of that, where the downtown area is being rebuilt with local, State, and Federal funds, yes, but also with the support of neighborhood groups and also the support of the local banking and other leaders.

One of the major contributing factors to the dramatic reduction in crime that does permit the children to walk to school and does permit people to go out on the front porch at night without being fearful is the close relationship between people who live in a neighborhood and the police officers who serve there.

I rode in from the airport today with the mayor of Detroit, Coleman Young, and I asked him, "How in the world have you and the police officers had such an unprecedented reduction in the crime rate?" And he said that one of the major reasons is that the police officers now are closely related to the community in which they serve. And they become friends of the people who live there, and eventually that friendship is reciprocated.

Quite often in a community that is very poor, that is going downhill, the people distrust the police officers and look on them almost as enemies instead of friends. I think that that permanent, friendly, mutually supportive relationship with the police officials among the neighbors who live in that community is a very vital part that can prevent a deterioration. Obviously, our public works programs, the community development programs, the housing programs, the red-lining programs, the crime control programs will be of help.

Another couple of things that I'd like to mention briefly is that we're trying to hold down the exorbitant costs of, for instance, medical care for people that you care about. We have a hospital cost containment bill that's already passed the two major committees in the House and the Senate. And this will stop the rapid increase in the cost of families, like in your neighborhood, where the income is fairly fixed.

A very high portion of people whom you serve are older. I think about 60 percent in your neighborhood, I understand, are maybe 65 or older--an extraordinary percentage. And they live on a fixed income. So, we're trying to do something to hold down inflation of all costs. We got some statistics this morning that show that the inflation rate, at least for last month, is less than 4 percent. I would like to maintain this permanently. I don't think we can, but at least we're making a step in the right direction.

The last point f want to make is that under the Housing and Urban Development Department, for the first time, we have a special Assistant Secretary for neighborhoods. His name is Father Baroni. And I know you're familiar with him.

During the campaign, two things that I emphasized almost everywhere I went was, one, the importance of the neighborhood, and the second was the importance of the family. I think if we can keep those family structures intact, that will make a great step forward.

And now, to get to someone who has always been very reluctant to express herself openly--[laughter]--Gladys Woodard.

SENIOR CITIZENS

Ms. WOODARD. Thank you, Mr. President. I'm going to make this very short because we have some more panelists here, and they're going to have to talk to you, too. I've talked to you a lot, and I'm going to talk to you again. I'll be in Washington next weekend. [Laughter]

The Older Americans Act is concerned with the quality of life for the elderly. In Michigan and particularly in Detroit, many senior citizens are living on limited, frozen incomes, in many instances as low as $3,000 per year or less.

Many of the persons here, and especially elderly people, they always face gas heat shutoffs or threats to shut it off because they have no money to pay the gas bills. It's too high. This is caused by delinquency as a result of last winter's severe cold wave. Now, I know you talk about energy, Mr. President, but these people must keep warm. Otherwise, they'll have pneumonia--anything. Even though the application for utilities relief was filed with the Department of Social Services, the threats and actual shutoffs has been taking place in a ruthless fashion here in the city of Detroit.

We are deeply concerned that, in addition to last winter's severe cold, we may face another severe, cold winter this winter. And we urge you, Mr. President, to use your power in your office to intervene on the behalf of the lives of thousands of senior citizens, not only of Detroit but across this country. We also urge a moratorium on heat shutoff from now until the winter is over, especially for senior citizens and for ADC mothers that have a house full of children.

There's a need to address the problems of the ethnic poor, especially senior citizens, who cannot receive services because of inability to communicate. There's a need to urge Social Security, the Department of Social Services, and other service agencies to develop a sensitivity to the needs of those who are isolated by language and cultural barriers. Those people are suffering, too. We don't have enough people to teach these people to take steps to recruit bilingual personnel and to avail themselves of community resources persons who can help and advocate and temper their language, and they suffer.

Also, in low-income areas we are also suffering in housing. And I agree with Father here: Everybody doesn't want to leave their rightful neighborhood. I also am the director--you know what I am-and I have all ethnic groups--Hungarians, Latinos, Poles, Appalachian whites, Mexicans--and all of those people are 65 percent, and the black is about 40 percent in my area, and I also head those organizations.

And there's about 14,000 people in my little neighborhood, and we need housing, Mr. President. I will be coming to Washington next week to see about that again. We need housing, and we need housing in that neighborhood, not because people said, "Oh, you live out there." Everybody can't live on the boulevard. Everybody can't live on Woodward. You have got to live in your respective neighborhoods. And we urge you to talk to HUD. And HUD is the people that will make some old broke-down houses; they don't care where you live. So, we want you to use your power to try to help us to get some houses for low-income families.

THE PRESIDENT. In order to get around the panel, I am going to make my answers very brief.

First of all, on the energy special funds for those that have their power cut off or their heat cut off, as you know, last year, quite late in the freezing winter, we came forward with $200 million under Graciela Olivarez, who runs the Community Services Agency [Administration]. This money was distributed to the local and State governments very efficiently, very effectively, in a hurry, too late. I've already had Senator Muskie and Senator Kennedy come to see me this week saying, "What about this coming winter?" And I can promise you that we're not going to be too late this coming winter.

On the bilingual approach to many problems, not just in education--of course, this is something we are pursuing. I promised this during the campaign and will continue with it.

And you mentioned that HUD hasn't cared where people lived or what kind of houses they lived in. This may have been the case in the past, that there have been housing funds frozen and impounded in the past. That won't ever happen as long as I'm in the White House because I know you'll be watching me too closely. I don't think we could have a better Secretary of Housing and Urban Development than Pat Harris, that we've got now. She's there with you, she cares about you, and you can depend on her and me not to let this happen again.

Thank you very much, Gladys.

Now, Courtney Matthews.

YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT

MR. MATTHEWS. Good afternoon, Mr. President. My name is Courtney Matthews, and I'm 20 years old. I came to Detroit in 1966 from Chicago, Illinois. After I graduated from high school, I found it necessary that I work in order to attend college. I worked as a cook and a custodian and an unskilled laborer at Chrysler. And then, together with funds and savings I saved up and my mother's financial help and a basic opportunity grant, I was able to attend Tuskeegee Institute for 1 year, before financial forces forced me to return back to Detroit to seek employment. Now I live with my brother and his family. And my sister-in-law and I were the only ones supporting the family this summer because my brother was on disability. Now our program is over with, and there's no income coming into the house at all.

So now, my question is to you: What is a 20-year-old man to do when he wants to work and he wants to help his family and he wants to get a job in a city where there's no jobs for minority youth at all? Youth programs like that are our only jobs we have to look for, where private employers can give us the attention we need to become a productive citizen in today's job world. Thank you.

THE PRESIDENT. That's a good and a tough question to answer. And, Courtney, I can't tell you that I've got the answer. We have, in the whole country, now brought the unemployment rate down, I'd say, about 1 percent below what it was a year ago. And as you've already heard, in Detroit itself in the last 2 or 3 years, the unemployment rate has dropped about 75 percent. But that still means that when you have a 6 or 7 percent unemployment rate nationwide among young men like you, who are black, who have a fairly good education even, the unemployment rate runs 35 or 40 percent, which is entirely too high.

What we have tried to do already-and I would say the Congress has cooperated--is to concentrate our efforts on the Comprehensive Education and Training Act among young people themselves. We are now building up those jobs to 725,000. It will take a while to get up to that level. We are adding about, I'd say, in that particular program about 15,000 new jobs per week, which is a fairly big increase. About half those jobs will go to minority young people.

In addition, we've got a $1 1/2 billion youth employment bill that the Congress passed, ! signed into law. This has been within the last month or so. And it's just beginning to be put into effect.

Another thing that will help you is that in the public works projects that will be built in your area--and we're concentrating them more and more not in the wealthy suburban areas, but in the downtown areas where the need is greatest--at least 10 percent of those contracts in the future must go to minority business enterprises, and we're trying to make sure that the business is actually owned by a minority and not owned by the majority with just a figurehead black person whose name is used to qualify for the funds themselves.

Another thing that I'd like to point out to you is this: We've got a better economy than most of the nations of the world, but we've still got a long way to go. My goal, already established, is that before this term of mine is over that we'll bring that unemployment rate down from 8 percent, which it was last December, to well under 5 percent by the time 1981 rolls around.

There are not any automatic or easy answers. It's a very tough proposition. But the only thing we can do is make sure the jobs are made available in private industry, first of all, in government, second of all, and to make sure that the discrimination that has existed in the past against minority young people like you is wiped away and that we give 'a first priority in all our programs to the areas of the Nation, the areas of cities that have been hurt the worst. All those things are of substantial change or improvement over what we've seen in the past. But it's going to be a hard, long, tough proposition, and I wish you well.

Are you unemployed right now?

MR. MATTHEWS. Right now, yes, sir.

THE PRESIDENT. Well, we'll try to help you in those ways.

Joan Shaw.

COMMUNITY ACTION PROGRAMS

MS. SHAW. Afternoon, Mr. President. My name is Joan Shaw, and I'm from St. Cloud, Minnesota, and I work for a CAP agency. I guess I worked on your Crisis Intervention Program, and I'd like to say that our State of Minnesota spent its $8.5 million in 5 weeks' time about. And there's lots of people out there, thousands, that our agency had alone that we couldn't help because the funds ran out. So, we're asking you to consider giving us some more money.

THE PRESIDENT. We will do that.

MS. SHAW. Thank you. CAP's need, I guess--more money to run to really help the people. It seems like we have one program at a time. Like right now we have a food shelf and a little bit of money to buy food stamps for people who we're trying to help get on assistance. Well, we'll have it for awhile, and then all the money runs out, and we can't help any more. We're kind of in-between all the time. So, you know, it's really a great need.

As for myself, I guess I'd like to also talk on health problems. Like I said, I'm a mother of five, and I don't qualify to get medical assistance, and yet I don't make enough money to pay the dental care of my own children who need it badly.

So, I'm asking you to really be concerned about the low-income, who feel that the poor get poorer and the rich get richer, and help us, too. Thank you.

THE PRESIDENT. Thank you very much. Well, you have been very active, I understand, in representing consumers in a strong and very effective fashion, and I want to congratulate you on it. We are now facing a major decision by the Congress and by the Nation on energy legislation. And one of the toughest battles that I have to fight is to protect the consumers and to make sure that the Congress doesn't give the oil companies all the financial breaks as we put into effect an energy package. I might say that I have had superb support from the Vice President, from the Members of Congress from your own State in the House and Senate, and I'm going to go by Sunday afternoon and pick up the finest American that I have ever known--Senator Hubert Humphrey--and he's going to go back to Washington with me.

The Michigan delegation came with me. They are helping me, too, with this very difficult energy legislation. But it could mean, if we make a serious mistake, a devastating blow to the people who are not sometimes adequately represented by the lobbyists in Washington. And I hope that you all will look on me as your prime lobbyist in Washington for those who don't have strong representation at times.

We have done a few things, just to answer your specific questions, on food. This year already the Congress has very wisely removed the purchase requirement for food stamps, which, I think, will make the program much easier to administer in the future, and it will prevent poor people from having to put cash money into food stamps. They'll get the food stamp themselves now in the future without having to put money into it.

We also have done the best we could to provide some help for fuel costs during the rough winter we had last year. We'll have the same program, I don't have any doubt, this winter to take care of families who might have their energy cut off.

We have put forward, in addition, some programs that will be of great help to the poorer-built homes, with direct aid for those who want to insulate their homes. Quite often the poorer a family is, the more inefficient their home is in preserving heat and energy, and we want to be sure that that's corrected in this bill so that it will be a protection for you in the future.

We want to make sure that the money collected on oil price increases goes back to the consumers directly. And as you know, there's a great deal of pressure to give a large part of this money to the oil companies.

We are trying to have electricity rate reform. At this time the electric power companies charge the highest electric rates to those homeowners who use the least amount of electricity. If you have a big building like this or a big office building or a big factory, the more electricity you use, the less you pay per kilowatt-hour. And we want to be sure that that's turned around.

We also want to make sure that there's an end to the construction of unnecessary electric powerplants, because when there is a waste of electricity and the power companies have to build new plants to meet that need--increased demand that's not necessary--then the present consumers of electricity have to pay for the construction costs. This has not been addressed adequately in the past.

The other point I'd like to say is we are very concerned about health. We have put into effect a new immunization program. Now only about 45 percent of our young people are immunized against diseases.

When I was a child, or when some of you were children, almost a hundred percent of us had had immunization shots. We hope to increase that very quickly. And, you know, our CHAPS program, where we give full physical examinations for young people at a very early age--we now have only about 1 1/2 million children who get that program. We intend, before I go out of office, to increase this 500 percent and have about 8 million more young people get these physical examinations and when things are found wrong with them at an early age, to give them health care that they need. Because if they go into the teenage years and later years, if they've had an early disease or problem that could have been corrected, it becomes very expensive for the public and also, of course, destroys their lives.

So, we have many programs that are now being put into effect very quickly under me and the Democratic Congress that I think are going to meet the needs of some of the people that you represent so well in Minnesota.

MS. SHAW. Thank you.

THE PRESIDENT. Thank you very much, Joan.

Mike Maloney.

APPALACHIAN MIGRANTS

MR. MALONEY. Mr. President, I'm Mike Maloney. I'm the son of an Appalachian coal miner. I'm now an Appalachian migrant and director of the Urban Appalachian Council in Cincinnati, which is an advocacy organization for Appalachian migrants.

We now know who the urban poor are. The urban poor are black Southerners, even though they may be third generation from the South. They are white Southerners from the Appalachian South and from the flatland South. They're internal migrants from Puerto Rico. They're Chicanos or Mexican Americans. And they are the elderly that you and Father Hernady were talking about, of the national ethnic minorities. The bulk of the urban poor are in those groups. Our concerns as Appalachians are the same as has already been expressed.

I do need to mention that there are 6 million first- and second-generation mountain people now living outside the Appalachian region and that we're one of the largest ethnic minorities in the urban North. And it doesn't seem that the Federal Government knows that we exist. In many cases, the local governments don't know that we exist.

But if the Government has programs that help with unemployment, that help with the education of low-income children and housing, and if Government programs give some emphasis on the development of the neighborhoods, which are where people live, and consult with the people who live in neighborhoods, and if, perhaps, you could appoint a Presidential commission on urban neighborhoods to make sure you're not just dealing with city hall, but to make sure that programs are relating to neighborhoods, that would help all of us. Thank you.

THE PRESIDENT. Thank you.

When I was Governor, I was chairman of the Appalachian Regional Commission. There are 13 States that belong to it, as you know. And this is an area that has been devastated in the past, was perhaps the poorest region of our Nation, may still be the poorest region of our Nation, geographically speaking. This poverty, as you point out so well, has forced many, several million people, from that mountain region into the urban centers. Quite often, they don't have the technical skills or the educational background or experience to survive and help themselves once they get in an urban environment. I think that this is likely to improve.

I would like to suggest that you make a point of coming to Washington and meeting with Father Baroni on the neighborhood question. He's a very sensitive man. This is a new office that has been established just to deal with neighborhoods themselves, because I'm afraid that he might overlook the special problems of the Appalachian migrants because he's not acquainted with your and my region of the country. So, if you would do that, Mike, I'm sure he'd be glad to see you. It might be possible, if you call him, that he could come and meet with you in a group who represent these 6 million migrant persons.

MR. MALONEY. He's a man that I trust.

THE PRESIDENT. He's a good man, and I think if he knew you better that the two of you might help to alleviate some of these problems that you describe. There is no program specifically for migrant Appalachians who now have settled in the downtown areas of the cities. But I think that the programs that we have outlined already, which I won't repeat, would be applicable, but we need to know the special problems of the folks that you have in mind.

Would you do that for me? And I'll tell Father Baroni to expect you.

MR. MALONEY. I'll be glad to.

THE PRESIDENT. Thank you, Mike. Mr. Doss.

URBAN PROGRAMS IN DETROIT

MR. Doss. I'm Larry Doss, Mr. President. I'm president of New Detroit, Incorporated, the urban coalition in Detroit which works on improving the quality of life for people in the entire metropolitan area, but with special emphasis on the problems of the poor and minorities.

And you mentioned earlier that some positive things were happening in Detroit, and we're very conscious that Detroit is moving upward. Much of this is because of the kind of partnership and coalition that's been forged here in Detroit between government leaders, between labor and business and people in the community-the partnership that is turning many things around. But one particular important component has been generally absent from that partnership in the degree that we would like to have it present, and that has been the Federal Government. There are many, many programs and many needs that we have in Detroit that we would like to see the Federal Government be very much more involved in in terms of that partnership.

We brought to Washington a delegation led by Mayor Young--I think a very dramatic 5-year plan for moving Detroit forward--back in June. And there has been some limited response to that plan. But we haven't yet seen the full Federal partnership response to that plan.

Some of the specific things in that plan and other crucial problems that we're trying to deal with in Detroit now, which really relate to moving ahead on our poverty problems and our economic development problems, are first of all jobs. Even though we've made that progress you talked about, from 24 percent to 8.8 percent, we're still something like 70,000 jobs short in Detroit, 70,000 people unemployed.

Secondly, we have still very pressing educational problems. Even though we are making some progress in education here, we still have 40,000 young people in Detroit between the ages of 16 and 20 that are dropouts from the school system. And our regular programs don't take care of them. No State programs are dealing with these young dropouts. So, we need new alternative education programs that give us a chance to recapture these young people and provide a new quality of life for them, because they will have the educational base they need.

Another crucial thing in Detroit is to strengthen our economic base so that we can become self-sufficient over the long run. In the short run it's going to take a great partnership of input from the Federal Government to accomplish this, and the kinds of things that we need on that are things like an urban development bank and other kinds of Federal incentives that will help to encourage business and jobs to locate in urban areas. We're getting an outflow rather than an inflow of businesses and the jobs they bring, and that's one of the things that creates our 70,000-job shortage.

So, those are some of the crucial kinds of things that we need in Detroit. And, most of all, we need to expand this partnership that we've developed here, that's helping to move us forward, by having the Federal Government help us on these kinds of things, move us closer to full employment, and be a full partner in our efforts to restore Detroit.

THE PRESIDENT. Thank you, Mr. Doss. In order to save time, I'm going to ask three of the panelists to speak at a time, and then I'm going to ask my good friend Grace Olivarez to comment. I think we've covered most of the basic questions on the left about new health programs, job programs, public works programs, and so forth. Then I'll reserve a right after Grace comments to add my own, if necessary.

Mrs. Prieto.

ROLE OF WOMEN IN URBAN PROGRAMS

MRS. PRIETO. Mr. President, I am Luz Maria Prieto of Chicago, Illinois. I work for a group called Mujeres Latinas en Accion, or Latin Women in Action. We're a group of Latino women in Chicago. And knowing that--we know the problems of the barrios and the problems of the women. We have to struggle just to survive. And the woman has the greatest burden to survive for her family. We have to struggle through a disastrous educational system, a health system that we don't understand and sometimes does us a great deal of harm, and a great deal of underemployment because we are working women and have to work just to keep our families afloat. We're away from all the debates of things that affect us--domestic violence, abortion, drug abuse.

The sad part is not that we not only have no voice in these debates, but these are all debates about reactions to the problems. The women in the neighborhoods don't want just to react. We want to control our own destinies. And we need very simple answers, it seems to us, if we could say something about it. We need quality education, all the way down from child care, all around the clock, that's bilingual and bicultural, education for our children, education for the women who have to go back so we'd have real skills, skills that would benefit us and our families and would build up our communities, not just being dumped from one public sector job to another.

So, we're asking people to really work on the causes. It seems very simple. And if you talked to poor women and the Latino women of the barrios, we would tell you that that's what we need. We need programs that would just help us be self-sufficient.

THE PRESIDENT. Thank you very much.

Mr. Oscar Webb.

JOB PROGRAMS

MR. WEBB. Yes. Mr. President, my name is Oscar Webb and I represent Target Area I, which is part of the poverty program. And I imagine everything that I want to say has been hit on slightly, because it would take a multitude of things for me to explain to you some of the things that we need.

I would like to give you a good example. One of the things is that a father look at his child and say, "I'm on a fixed income. I can't work, can't find work, don't know where to go." You know, it's agony in a child's face, the father's face, the mother's face for this person to have to look and say that my family looks at me as a failure. There's no way for me to go. What am I going to do, you know? But now we are asking, you know, that maybe we can put someone up there in Washington who understands what's going on down here in these areas. And the only way that you can really find an answer is to ask the hungry man what it feels like. You know? We cannot ask a person that doesn't understand what he's going through.

Other than that, education, you know--we have dropouts. It's many a reasons for these dropouts. We never had a committee to go out and find out why these dropouts are out of high school. We need people that's in the community to get into these programs.

We ask that when these guidelines are written, is it possible that maybe 40 percent or 60 percent of these jobs, paying jobs, go to the people who are in poverty, since it's poverty money? We would like to see these people's response. And that money that we're getting for welfare, that money can be used for other people who are on the waiting list. Do you understand?

I want to thank you for coming to Detroit to hear our complaints, and we hope that you will have this session again. I'm sorry that I didn't have enough time to give you all of the information on subjects that was on my mind.

Thank you.

THE PRESIDENT. I'd like to introduce Grace or Graciela Olivarez, who heads up our program in the Government-Community Services Agency--that deals directly and specifically and quickly with programs that have been outlined in this panel already.

I might point out that Mr. Webb is not only unemployed but he's disabled because of an accident. And this adds a special problem to a father who wants to be proud before his children. And when you talk about the problems of hungry people, I think that makes a great impression on me and on Ms. Olivarez and on the news media and on the rest of the people of the country who have heard or will hear tonight on the evening news what you've had to say, Mr. Webb.

I'd like to ask Ms. Olivarez to comment on the points that you three people have raised.

Ms. OLIVAREZ. I'd like to point out to Mr. Doss, I heard the Boston plan being introduced yesterday in the White House. And listening to Mr. Maloney, to the Detroit plan, and the Boston plan, I think that there's an ingredient missing, and that is that we can't talk about urban development without talking about rural development simultaneously. Because as you start improving the cities, they continue to be the magnet that create the situation that Mr. Maloney explains. But no provision was made for that type of magnet that is being created in the revitalization of cities.

So, I guess my recommendation, or my plea, would be for all who are developing urban redevelopment or regeneration plans not to forget that we've got to do the same thing in the rural areas simultaneously, or we're not going to be solving the problem.

I would like to mention, Mr. President, that Mrs. Prieto's father is an M.D. in Chicago who has done more work, probably more free-of-charge work, among the poor than any other M.D. who I know in the country. He has dedicated his life as a doctor and his services to people who don't have access to doctors. So, I'm very pleased to get to know her because I've known her dad for a while.

Let me just say, Luz, that I'm not trying to polish the President's apple. There's one great thing in Washington right now. There are a lot of women in key positions who are making policy. So, the problems of the women that you were describing can be addressed right now if you're willing to go in a joint partnership--Federal, State, city. And I would recommend that you get in touch with people like Blandina Cardenas, Arabella Martinez. Both of them are in the Office of Human Development at HEW. By the same token, you might want to talk to some of the women on our staff or at the regional office in Chicago, because the type of program that you're doing--if we could do more of the preventive rather than the remedial, through training, I think that would help.

For Mr. Webb, I know what you're talking about when you say that the people who need the jobs didn't get them. I think you have to understand that during the last 8 years, the poverty agency has been victimized, brutalized, gutted, defunded, maligned. But under this administration we're trying to slowly bring it back together again, not necessarily to make it a larger agency, but to be a more effective spokesperson for the poor. And because of the last 8 years--there was no supervision, there was no monitoring-I'm sure that in some instances, the people who didn't deserve the jobs got them. I can assure you that under some of our regulations that we've issued recently and for which I'm getting a lot of flak, that is not going to continue, because we are constantly monitoring to be sure that the people who understand the problems are working at the solution as paid employees and not perpetual volunteers.

THE PRESIDENT. Let me add a brief comment. I noticed all three of you have talked about some problems that didn't arise before. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the welfare reform proposal that we've put to the Congress. This program is designed to give our people better jobs and income. That's the name of it--Better Jobs and Income Program. And we have in there a heavy allotment of funds and programs for day care, for child care, that would specifically relate to women who want to work. And we also have included in the program 1.4 million jobs, Mr. Webb, for the heads of families. That is above and beyond anything that I've described here to you so far.

We recognize that almost every person who is on welfare that's able to work would rather work if they are given an opportunity. And that will be the thrust of the welfare reform proposal that Congress will be working on and, hopefully, will pass next year. They already have the legislation on their desk. They have already' started hearings on the subject.

So, to put people back to work that are able and want to work will be a major new thrust of the welfare proposals that Congress has now.

I'd like to call on Ms. Franckowiak first.

UTILITY ASSISTANCE PROGRAM

LORETTA FRANCKOWIAK. Most of what I was going to speak of about the utilities and the fuel shortage and so on has been very well put, but I would like to add to that. I think we need to continue the utility assistance program for poor people and the aged on a low-income basis with as much money as possible that can reach them.

In addition, we need programs to educate our youth. In the energy conservation our youth must get involved in the energy crisis, and I think employing low-income youth in helping out with energy problems is possibly a way to do it. It's very brief, but I want to thank you for your time.

THE PRESIDENT. Very good, too.

Mr. Carl Fox.

SENIOR CITIZENS

MR. Fox. Mr. President, this is my sixth year working for the senior citizens. I'm a volunteer man, from the area agencies. The area agencies on aging and other States and Federal organizations who serve the elderly need to coordinate their programs of the Community Service Administration and local community action agency.

I'll skip along, Mr. President. The time lags between increases in social security benefits and increases in the Community Services Administration--poverty guidelines makes many needy clients ineligible for important service. If these increases took place at the same time, this would resolve the problem. The difference between the State and the Federal poverty guidelines should be eliminated to remove the roadblocks to service to the poor.

Now, Mr. President, I will go on, I know your time is limited. More lead time is needed between requests for our proposals and the due dates of our applications to allow seniors input and proper planning. More elderly low-income housing-well, I will skip that. Laws must be designated to remove certain zoning restrictions which have been used as a tool to prevent senior citizens low-income housing in many communities. More government grants should be geared to establish employment opportunity for low-income.

Okay, Mr. President, for a long time it has been recognized that it is less expensive for the taxpayer to provide support service for the elderly than it is to place the elderly in a nursing home. Certainly, almost all older persons are happier in their own home than they are in nursing homes. Therefore, it is important for this country to spend more of its resources on providing support service for the elderly. The existing support service programs, such as chore service, visiting nurses, home-bound meals, and so forth, have waiting lists of people who need the service but cannot get it because the programs are not sufficiently funded to handle the needs in their communities. Some of our elderly are lucky enough to get into elderly housing projects. These lucky persons receive housing subsidies to cover rent, utilities, taxes, insurance, and maintenance. The unlucky ones remain in their own home and try somehow to pay taxes, utilities, insurance, and maintenance. If they cannot cover their costs, they often find themselves in nursing homes.

For community development, Mr. President, it would be better for the older person and cheaper for the taxpayer to provide a subsidy to the older persons who own their own home to assist them with taxes, insurance, utilities, and maintenance. What I am suggesting, Mr. President, is that the Federal Government put more of the resources into full-range support service to assist the elderly to remain independent in their own home with dignity. This will also help maintain the stability of our Presidential community. Thank you.

THE PRESIDENT. Ms. Evelyn Chappell.

INCREASING COST OF ENERGY

Ms. CHAP?ELL. Mr. President, my name is Evelyn Chappell. I am a Head Start parent coordinator from Oak Park, Michigan.

My concerns mostly have been answered as you went around the table-about low-income housing, the lack of low-income housing, adequate low-income housing, high utility bills for ADC and low-income families.

Also, there seems to be a conflict between Housing and Urban Development and the Department of Social Services regarding utilities. For instance, utility allowances: Department of Social Services has one, and HUD has one. The difference in those allowances are subtracted and added onto ADC recipients' rents. I am an ADC recipient. I live in public housing. I know. Your rent goes up, and they add these charges onto your rent. They only allow you "x" amount of dollars for gas, "x" amount of dollars for lights, when your one bill--your light bill--is higher than both that they allow you.

The winterization program is very, very good for the senior citizens. Okay, but what about the ADC and the low-income mothers who own their own home, who cannot afford to get roof leaks fixed, basements repaired, and windows repaired? What do we do?

Thank you, Mr. President.

THE PRESIDENT. Very good.

MS. OLIVAREZ. I would just like to point out to you, Loretta, that the President has already indicated that we're going to make every effort to be sure that we do have a supplemental amount of money to help people with their high utility bills, so they don't go into the winter without that kind of assistance. Secondly, I would also advise that you continue to work on weatherization. And then, the third phase, which we must get involved in--that is looking at alternative sources of energy. I think we've been dragging our feet too long on this.

I come from a State--New Mexico-where we've already experimented with solar energy units that cost us $300, that were very effective in reducing heating costs by 30 percent--and then discovered that we could grow vegetables and flowers in them. So, we have an added dimension to it.

I guess what I'm saying is that there are hopes and plans and even some successes on alternative energy sources, particularly for people on fixed income, because I'm sure we're not going to be able to get supplemental appropriations every year for this type of problem. So, we must work on the alternative sources and on education, on the real issues surrounding energy.

As far as Mr. Fox is concerned--Mr' Fox, you know our agency gets a total of $10 million a year to work with senior citizens, simply because we're not the lead agency in serving senior citizens.

You pointed out the guidelines and the time involved in getting your application in. May I point out to you that Mr. Glenwood Johnson, the Regional Director in our Chicago office--would you stand, Glenwood?--I'd like you to get together with him after this, and would you repeat to him your concerns on the guidelines and when the application goes in and all that, to be sure that if there's a major problem that we take care of it immediately.

Like I said, we don't have the responsibility for senior citizens. We get $10 million. And our job is to be sure that we identify as many of those who are eligible for the existing programs. But that amount has been static for the last 4 or 5 years. We're hoping that we'll get a little bit more. But I'm not sure that it's only money that's going to solve the problem. I think we need to coordinate a little bit better.

And then, lastly, I should tell you that we do have an interagency group looking at the whole issue of who is in poverty and who isn't in poverty, and what do they mean by poverty guidelines, and how do you measure poverty in this era where people, even the middle class, can't afford to pay utility bills and buy houses.

THE PRESIDENT. We're going to go to the audience now. I would like to say, though, one thing about, particularly, Mr. Fox's comments, since he represents the elderly. The Senate, as you know, passed this week a change in the mandatory retirement age from 65 to 70. I have always felt that it was better for a person that age who wants to work to be allowed to do so, rather than to force them into retirement or onto the unemployed rolls.

Also, we are moving strongly to take advantage of what you've just described, that it's always cheaper for someone to receive services in their own home than it is to go into a nursing home or go into a public institution. Almost invariably, too, the elderly person or retired person is much happier if they can live in one's own home. And that involves public meals. It also involves health care. It also involves recreation. And we know that there are many who need help with housing. We are continuing and restrengthening the 202 housing program that provides public housing for the elderly, and of course, the Section 8 rent supplements will help all those around this table and those whom you do represent.

I thought that Ms. Chappell--I'm sorry I pronounced your name wrong-made some very good points on the special problems of people who are not elderly, who are not disabled, but who do qualify and genuinely need the services of the welfare program under HEW.

There's too much of an overlap and a lack of communication among the different Federal agencies. We're trying to bring some order out of chaos in making sure that these agencies do have a special responsibility, that they have to cooperate, communicate, and work with one another, because if it's hard for me in the White House, with all my authority, to understand which Federal agency does what, it's impossible for you to understand which Federal agency does what.

We do have an outstanding group of women at the top levels in our Federal Government. Graciela Olivarez is only one of them. At the head of the Housing and Urban Development Department, we have a strong, competent woman; at the head of the Commerce Department, responsible for all public works programs and EDA programs, we have a strong and competent woman; at the head of the Equal Employment Opportunity Agency [Commission], as you know, we have a strong and competent woman, and many others in Cabinet and sub-Cabinet levels. This is a fairly new development in our Government. But, I think, quite often women who have been activists in fighting for poor people, deprived people, minority groups, the elderly, and women are now helping to make policy for our own administration.

Before we take the first question from the audience, I'd like to say that although I've tried to provide some answer or explanation to you when you've had a criticism or a question, we've got a long way to go. We've made some progress, and I don't want you to think that I believe that all the questions have been answered. When we leave here today, Courtney Matthews will still be unemployed. And when we leave here today, there will still be problems for Mrs. Prieto and the women, and particularly minority group women, in having equal rights in our country. There will still be urban areas that are left blighted. There will still be a lack of communication between you and Federal, State, and local officials who are trying to work with you.

We are not solving all the problems here today, but as the head of our Government, I have learned a lot. And I hope that all of you will keep your direct connections with me, with Ms. Olivarez, and others. This is a first step.

Is Father Baroni here? Where? Come up here a minute. Stand up again. I want all of you to see Father Baroni.

Almost every question that has been raised this afternoon relates directly to the family and the life structure of a neighborhood. And, of course, my neighborhood responsibility is to 215 million Americans. But the only way that I can do that job well is to make sure that each family, each home, each street, each small community is addressed as a unit and that people there join in with me in making their own lives better.

When the members of a neighborhood rebel against government or look on the policemen as an enemy or provide hatred or misunderstanding against a neighbor who might be different from you, to that extent it makes it impossible for me or the Federal Government or your local or State governments to do anything. And Father Baroni's only responsibility is to work with people like you, who represent neighborhoods, to make sure that all of our programs strengthen that basic foundation on which our country rests.

Father Baroni, I'm very glad you came here today. This is a new job in the Federal Government, and I think as time goes by, you'll see the advantages of having a man like him who has that responsibility to you.

Now, I don't know what the exact arrangement is, but I understand we have microphones on each side. We'll start with this gentleman on my right.

QUESTIONS PROGRAMS FOR SPANISH-SPEAKING

Q. Buenos tardes [good afternoon], President Carter.

THE PRESIDENT. Buenos tardes, Senor.

Q. My name is Rafael Acala. Some of my qualifications: I was an ex-migrant, President Carter, I'm a student. Some of the problems that I represent here--I think I've been kind of contemplating on what the question I could ask you, kind of put everything in a nutshell, and it possibly could fit in with Ms. Olivarez to help you--that as the second largest minority in the United States, representing not only the city of Detroit but the whole United States.

The question I want to ask you, President, is that, what is the reason why, when programs are funded for Latinos, Chicanos, or Hispanic communities--and they are just getting off the ground--they seem to be taken away from us, including the city of Detroit? What I want to ask you, President Carter, is, for example--at the present time there is a need for this type of education, of programs, not only in the black community but in the Latino communities. For example, at the present time. President Carter and Ms. Olivarez, LULAC National Education Service Centers has only a chance to be funded until December. This is the one and only top educational center mechanism that the Latino community has all over the United States. They only have fundings up to December. I am concerned, because it deals with all the issues that Mrs. Prieto and Mrs. Molina have addressed in the Latino community. I am concerned, just like all my brothers here in southwest Detroit. I am also a product of Michigan. I am concerned with what will you, President Carter, do in alleviating our problem when our funding for our Latinos programs, for Hispanic communities, are detailed, are not funded to the capacity that is needed. We need an answer on that, Mr. President.

THE PRESIDENT. Thank you, Mr. Acala. Ms. Olivarez is familiar with the specific question that you asked. I'm going to ask her to give you the answer.

Ms. OLIVAREZ. Mr. President, that particular project is an educational project that isn't designed exclusively for poor people. They have been funded by our agency for--it will be 4 1/2 years in January. And we have asked them to go to the Office of Education for that kind of money, because we don't have enough money to fund educational centers. Sometimes I think we wind up subsidizing the other agencies that have larger budgets.

THE PRESIDENT. What are the prospects for success in getting it continued?

Ms. OLIVAREZ. The prospects for their getting funding from the Office of Education are good, except that there's going to be a lull of about 5 months simply because of the bureaucratic situation. But I am working with the leaders of the organization to see if we can help them in the interim while they get their funding from the Office of Education.

THE PRESIDENT. DO you think I can help?

Ms. OLIVAREZ. Yes, sir.

THE PRESIDENT. I'll help. Thank you.

COMMUNITY ACTION PROGRAMS

Q. President Carter, my name is Audrey Francis, and I'm the mother of nine, and four are at home. I'm here for the CAP program. They've insulated my home and fixed the roof. I need their help badly, and they are working with the same funds that they started with 7 years ago. And every year it's still the same amount, and they are running out. The ones that are doing the work are the young people that are unemployed and out of work. And it's a case where the poor is helping the poor, and they're helping me help myself.

THE PRESIDENT. I understand. Grace also knows the answer to this. [Laughter]. Since she has a specific responsibility, I'll let her answer, and I'll follow up.

Ms. OLIVAREZ. Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to point out that seated behind you is part of the Michigan congressional delegation, who have been very good friends of the Community Action Agency. And through the help of them and others, we understand that our funding this year, particularly for the type of programs that you're talking about that are administered at the local levels through the CAP agency that we'll get a little bit more money than we had been getting in the past. So, we expect to be weatherizing a lot more homes of poor people.

Q. Thank you very much.

THE PRESIDENT. Before we go further, I'd like to ask the members of the Michigan congressional delegation to stand. I don't believe there's any other group in the country that has been more eager to help work with me and others in alleviating these problems than this group has. And I would like for them to stand and let you recognize them.

SPECIAL EDUCATION PROGRAMS

Q. Hello, Mr. Carter. Thank you for inviting me here this afternoon. My question deals with health care, and it's something that has touched my life and lives of other children.

What is your administration doing today for the children with learning disabilities, in terms of education, specialized training, and especially financial support for the children in low-income houses? People with low income can't afford the training their children need and have to send them to school where the teachers and the programs are not geared for the children with learning disabilities. These children suffer, and it's an emotional problem. It is a physical problem, and it scars them for the rest of their lives. And most of society neglects it and ignores it. The problems surface later, sometime in dropouts, in crime, and in many other areas. Thank you.

THE PRESIDENT. Thank you very much. One of the first things I did when I was elected was to appoint a special commission on those Americans who have mental problems and those who have disability problems. My wife is the Honorary Chairman, and as you may know, she has had hearings all around the country and has just recently given me her report. In the meantime, though, we've been learning from this special study.

One of the things that we are doing is, as we set up the day care centers and child care centers and expand that program, we're giving first priority to children who have learning disabilities and other problems of that kind. In the past they have been the last priority. We have now moved them up and will move up to the first priority.

The second thing we are doing is to. make sure in all our programs that deal with disabilities that we are emphasizing not institutional care, but community oriented small units, where the children can be close to their families, close to their own homes, where the cost is much less and the benefit of training programs and education programs are greatly magnified.

Another thing that we've done is to increase greatly the Head Start programs, which give the children in low-income communities an early start in the learning experience. The first Head Start program that ever existed in Georgia--I happened to have been the head of it. And I learned at that time the tremendous benefit that can be derived for children who come from deprived homes, not only handicapped because of emotional or mental or physical problems but also because of social problems and environmental problems, where the families are so poverty-stricken that the kids have never seen a book, they've never heard a bedtime story, they don't have any base on which to compete with the other children.

And the last thing I'll mention very briefly is the so-called CHAPS program, which I think is very crucial in the future. This will provide early, complete physical examinations which will include not only teeth and eyes and their bodily functions but also will include any disabilities that are at least apparent at that time. We now have about 1 1/2 million children a year who are given this kind of early, thorough examination. We expect to expand this very rapidly to about 9¼ million, which is an additional 8 million or about a fivefold increase. This will be done as rapidly as the bureaucratic structure can be established. Again, we want this to be done as nearly as possible to the children's natural living environment, either in the Head Start program, the first days when they attend the first grade, or in the home or community structure.

So, we are moving very quickly to correct some of the defects that have existed in the past and also to give special emphasis to those children who have special learning disabilities. Thank you very much.

SOCIAL SERVICE AGENCIES

Q. Mr. President, my name is Cleophus Young. I am president of the Community Action Agency in south Cook County. They have over 60,000 recipients.

My problem is that--we commend you on your redesigning or reorganizing human services as they relate to Washington and the fiscal control--our concern is that if a community action agency is supposed to be its clients' advocates, how can we deal effectively when human service agencies are compartmentalizing our clients? We have a big problem with one has their arms, one's got their legs, and there's never a case conference. We, at this point in time, demand some kind of vehicle that we can determine and monitor and be a part of the services that are given to our clients. One social worker might tell him to stand on his right foot, and a juvenile officer will tell him to stand on his left leg.

And please, in the winterization money we have one big problem--the way the paying agencies are taking their time to pay the utility companies, which should be sensitive to the problem, which they are not. We help a low-income person by paying the bill, but next week after the bill is paid, they get a request for deposits. So, you haven't helped them anyway. This program has only helped, this year, the utility companies. It has not really helped us. Please take this into consideration. Thank you.

THE PRESIDENT. The reason that the agencies compartmentalize your clients is because the agencies are compartmentalized in Washington. And there's no way to make it possible at the community level to have a client-family deal with one key person who can take care of the needs, without running all over the community, unless we have some coordination coming out of Washington. This is what we are trying to do with our reorganization proposal.

When I became Governor of Georgia, we had this same problem. We did an analysis and found that in some poor families we had seven different State agencies going to that one family. Every one of those agencies had a separate file on that family. And there was no way for the poor, sometimes ignorant people in the family that didn't have a telephone and didn't have an automobile to find the right agency when they had a problem.

But we had what we called a one-door policy that we established. We brought all those agencies together in a human resources department, and we arranged it so that in every community there was one place where a family could go for advice or counsel or even services, themselves, and for financial assistance. And we tried to make sure that one lead agency person it might be a mental health worker, it might be a social worker, or others-would go into that family and get to be friends of theirs. And that family had that person's telephone number. And if an aged person had a problem, and the social worker that worked with that family happened to be a specialist in mental health, they could call that person in the middle of the night, and that person would know who the aged counselor might be.

But we now still have a grossly disorganized Federal Government. At the regional office you have the same thing. But we're working on that. And the Congress gave me early this year authority to reorganize the structure of the Government. I'm going to do it, and I need for you to help me reach this great goal. I believe we can do it together.

We only have time for one more question, I understand from my staff.

CITIZEN PARTICIPATION IN COMMUNITY PROGRAMS

Q. Mr. President, my name is Romelia M. Carter, Youngstown, Ohio. As you probably already know, with the closing of the steel mills in Youngstown, we have a terrific problem.

THE PRESIDENT. Yes, I know.

Q. I'm representing the Youngstown Community Action Council. We would like to know, President Carter--now that it seems as if you are fully aware that the services that are to be given to the poor and money for jobs are being used up now in political patronage--if you have a way to or if you can explain to us what your plans are to alleviate this so that the old meaning of meaningful citizens participation once more comes back into stress. We used to know about citizens participation, and it was meaningful at one point. But now it's no longer meaningful. Can you give us some idea as to what you're going to do or what method you're going to use to make us meaningful again?

THE PRESIDENT. Thank you. I might say that it's always nice to meet my cousins, and I'm glad you are here. [Laughter] During the campaign I was able to visit Youngstown, as you may remember, several times, and you and Mr. Hall make a very good representation from that community today.

I believe that you would agree that when John Kennedy was President and when Lyndon Johnson was President, that the community action agencies had a life of their own and helped to make decisions about government programs. In the last 8 years--and I won't call the names of the Presidents who were in the White House--[laughter]--those community action agencies were put into a very secondary position and lost the influence and the decisionmaking authority that they formerly had under the leadership of people like Joe Califano in HEW, who helped to put into effect many of the Johnson programs 10 years ago. And under the leadership of Pat Harris and Juanita Kreps and Grace Olivarez and others, we're trying to bring back the life of those community action groups.

I think that it's impossible, no matter how intelligent or how dedicated a Washington official might be--it's impossible for them to know what the needs are in your community as well as you know them. That's the reason that I 'brought Grace Olivarez with me today, because that's her responsibility, working with the people that I've just named, to make sure that in the future we have a reviving of the community group influence and authority, whether it's a Hungarian American community or a Spanish-speaking community or a predominantly black community in Youngstown where a steel mill has shut down or a community of older people in Florida who have moved down there on a very low income; that doesn't matter. I want that particular community to let me know, through the Government agencies, how we can best address your problems.

I want to thank you for that good question. I think Grace would agree that we're making a move in the right direction. And I think meeting with you today will help to expedite what we want to do.

I think that everybody in the audience would agree that we've had a superb panel. They've asked very good questions, brought forward very good ideas for us. And I and all my staff members who are here, the different Federal agencies represented-and almost all of them are represented-the national news media that will repeat what you have said to the world at large tonight will benefit greatly from the sound, good judgment that you have provided and the personal experience that make your words carry even more authority than the words of a President. You know what you're talking about. I'm trying to learn what you're talking about.

Thank you very much.