Interview on MSNBC's "Morning Joe"

BRZEZINSKI: That was Hillary Clinton at last night's MSNBC town hall, speaking about how in 2008 she worked hard to convince her supporters to support then Senator Barack Obama.

Joining us from Philadelphia, Democratic presidential candidate Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Good morning. Welcome back to the show. I guess we'll start right there, Senator, because a lot of people, especially in the Clinton campaign say that you're hurting the party and you're hurting her chances of going into the nomination.

SANDERS: I'm hurting the party?

BRZEZINSKI: Well?

SANDERS: Mika there was just a study that came out from Harvard yesterday which suggests that the Sanders campaign is turning around millions of young people, getting them to be more progressive, in fact, getting them into the Democratic Party.

So I don't think we're hurting the party. I think a vigorous debate on the important issues facing the American people is not only exactly what democracy is supposed to be about, at the end of the day, it creates more political interest, it drives up voter turn out, and when voter turn out is high, progressives and Democrats win elections.

So, let me be very clear...

BRZEZINSKI: You can't argue -- you...

SANDERS: Let -- go ahead, I'm sorry.

BRZEZINSKI: No, it's all right. You can't argue, though, that you're -- I mean, if she is close to clenching this, if there is no path for you, then you're just hurting her as -- on the road to the nomination and she goes into it more damaged, maybe some would argue.

SANDERS: Well, first of all -- first of all, I don't accept there is no path for us. You know, let's not count our chickens before they're hatched.

There are five contests today. The state of California. Last I heard, the largest state in the United States of America has not yet cast a ballot.

I think all of the people of this country have a right to participate to determine who the Democratic nominee will be and what the agenda will be. And I think it will be very healthy for democracy and the Democratic Party when we have the debate, the platform debates, the policy debates at the convention.

Should the United States of America join every other major country and guarantee health care to all people through a Medicare for all program? Should we provide paid family and medical leave? Should we address the grotesque level of income inequality?

Should we deal with the fact that we have more people in jail than any other country? A lot of good debates to take place.

SCARBOROUGH: So...

SANDERS: And if I do not win the nomination, trust me, I'll do everything I can to make sure that some Republican does not end up in the White House.

SCARBOROUGH: But how important is it to you, win or lose, to reshape the Democratic Party as you move forward through the convention and make sure it's not the Democratic Party of Hillary Clinton's past, which we saw the New York times magazine this weekend painted her vividly as a hawk, as an interventionist.

And as you have said...

SANDERS: That is...

SCARBOROUGH: ... as somebody who has closer ties to Wall Street than probably the two Republican candidates?

SANDERS: Look, Joe, I'm really very proud that our campaign has brought so much energy into the political process. Not just young people, but working people, and the issue you raise is a very important issue.

Look, we know that sometimes our military has got to be involved in a war. But I think there are a lot of Democrats out there who are concerned that secretary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq, was active in the overthrow of the Gadhafi government in Libya, and maybe a little bit too much...

SCARBOROUGH: Is Hillary Clinton a hawk? Because we were talking to a New York Times reporter yesterday, and having a hard time getting her to admit what her own paper wrote over the weekend.

Do you believe that Hillary Clinton is a war hawk?

SANDERS: Let me just say this, my views on foreign policy are different than Secretary Clinton's. I helped lead the opposition to the war in Iraq. I think that force, military force is the last resort not the first resort. And I think my views are a lot closer to President Obama's than they are to Hillary Clinton's.

SCARBOROUGH: But do you think she's a hawk?

BRZEZINSKI: Or hawkish.

SCARBOROUGH: Is she -- is she -- is she an interventionist?

SANDERS: I don't want to -- you know, I don't want to -- Joe, I don't want to characterize it.

SCARBOROUGH: But not -- what about an interventionist? It really matters to people in the Democratic Party.

SANDERS: It does matter.

SCARBOROUGH: Especially after eight years of Bush and Cheney, and then the tripling of troops in Afghanistan and all the things that Hillary Clinton proposed while she was secretary of state.

It does matter to a lot of Democrats on whether they're going to nominate someone who is an interventionist. Do you believe she's an interventionist?

SANDERS: No, that's right. I think -- look, again, I don't want to characterize her, but I think our views on foreign policy are different.

I think what we have got to understand is that there are terrible dictators all over the world, but regime change, overthrowing some dictator often has unintended consequences.

Let's go way, way back to Guatemala, to Iran, when we overthrew a Democratically elected prime minister there.

So, I am more cautious about that. And in terms, certainly, the Middle East right now with ISIS, I believe it must be Muslim troops on the ground who do the fighting with the support of the United States. I will do everything that I can to prevent our troops from getting involved in perpetual warfare in the Middle East.

So, I think if the question is, do Secretary Clinton and I look at foreign policy in a different way? The answer is yes, we do.

BARNICLE: Senator, the Harvard study that you just referenced a few moments ago, showed your tremendous popularity among millennials. You've brought many millennials into the political process.

But it also points out that a majority of millennials -- I'm having trouble pronouncing the word -- reject both socialism and capitalism. They don't believe in socialism, they don't believe in capitalism. What should they believe in?

SANDERS: I think they should believe, Mike, in economic justice and ending this really, really grotesque level of incumbent wealth inequity in America, where the 20 wealthiest people now own more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans.

I've been in cities from all over this country, from Flint, to Detroit, to Philadelphia where you have 40, 50 percent of the children in those cities living in poverty. So, I think that the fight for economic justice -- and I'll tell you what else is resonating with young people.

They understand what corporate media, by the way, does not understand. That climate change is the great environmental crisis of our time, and that we have got to take on the fossil fuel industry, transform our energy system away from coal and oil into energy efficiency and sustainable energy. That generation understands that.

And the other thing they understand is that the younger generation today, if we do not change the economy, will, for the first time in modern history, have a lower standard of living than their parents. In other words, we're seeing the death of the American dream. These young people don't want to see that dream die.

So, there are a lot of issues out there that these young people, I think, are standing up and fighting for.

SCARBOROUGH: Yeah.

SANDERS: But I do believe they think government should play a more important role in protecting needs of the working people, the elderly, the children, the poor than we're seeing now.

GEIST: Senator Sanders, it's Willie Geist. Good to see you this morning.

You said something at our town hall last night I thought was interesting.

SANDERS: Hey, Willie.

GEIST: You said, if she becomes the nominee, it's not incumbent on you to tell your voters to go vote for her, it's incumbent on her to convince your voters that they should vote for her.

So, many of your supporters are adamantly against Hillary Clinton, adamantly for you. What could she say to a Bernie Sanders voter, theoretically, if she does get the nomination, to convince them that they ought to leave you and go vote for her?

SANDERS: I think what she has to do -- what any candidate has to do to win a general election is to convince the vast majority of the people who are the working class of this country, the middle class, lower income people that she is, more than any candidate is on their side.

You don't have to convince the billionaires. You know, they have enormous power -- all that many of them. You have got to convince ordinary people that you're prepared to deal with the major crises facing this country.

What are those crises? We're looking at a disappearing middle class in this country. We're looking at corporations who, in a given year, may make billions of dollars in profits and not pay a nickel in taxes. We're looking at kids graduating college $50, $70,000 in debt, paying it off that debt for decades.

The American people understand that in this great country, the rich and the billionaire class in corporate America cannot have it all.

So, I think that for Hillary Clinton, or Bernie Sanders or any other nominee, they got to go out to the American people, say yeah, I do have the guts to take on Wall Street, to end the disastrous trade policy, to take on corporate America, to say, yes, that the wealthy and powerful will start paying their fair share of taxes.

GEIST: And you said, though, Senator, she has not been capable of doing that thus far, that she is in the pocket of Wall Street.

So, how could she change her tone and convince your voters to go to her?

SANDERS: Well, I -- well, you know, that is her job. You know, people think, you know, Bernie Sanders is going to snap his fingers and everybody who votes for him is, oh, now we're going to, you know, vote for Hillary Clinton. Bernie said so. That's not the way the real world works. And it should not work that way. I have got to -- if I win the nomination, I'm going to have to convince Hillary Clinton supporters and Republicans and independents to vote for me. Hillary Clinton, every other candidate has the same challenge.

And I happen to believe, as I just said, that the American people are tired of establishment politics. They understand that almost all new income and wealth is going to the top 1 percent. They understand that there's something profoundly wrong when we're the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all of our people, or paid family and medical leave. They are tired of seeing in cities all over this country so many of our children going to totally inadequate schools and living in poverty. And I think we need leadership in this country to address those issues to understand that we have to take on the billionaire class. That's how you win elections, in my view.

SCARBOROUGH: Senator, good morning. It's Mark Halperin. Every president and vice president we've had in this country has been a man. If you are the nominee, would you commit to picking a woman as your running mate?

SANDERS: Well, I'm not going to commit -- you know, you have to look at the best candidates you can. But I think your point is well taken. I think the women of this country, the people of this country, understand that it would be a great idea to have a woman as vice president and something I would give very, very serious thought to.

BRZEZINSKI: All right.

SCARBOROUGH: Are there any women in particular you think would be qualified for that job?

SANDERS: Are there any women? Yes, there are many women who would be qualified for that job.

SCARBOROUGH: Could you name a couple?

SANDERS: No. I think it's a little bit early to be speculating on that. But I think -- you know, as you know, there are people in life that -- Elizabeth Warren, I think, has been a real champion in standing up for working families, taking on Wall Street. There are other -- you know, fantastic women who have been active in all kinds of fights who I think would make great vice presidential candidates.

SCARBOROUGH: All right.

BRZEZINSKI: All right. Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you very much.

SCARBOROUGH: Thank you, Bernie. We always love having you on.

BRZEZINSKI: And tomorrow on "Morning Joe"...

SANDERS: Thank you very much.

BRZEZINSKI: Good luck tonight.