Interview with George Stephanopoulos of ABC News

STEPHANOPOULOS: Good evening from Madison, WI for a special edition of this week. The first broadcast interview with President Biden since last week's debate. Earlier this afternoon, we taped the 22 minute interview. There are no cuts, no edits. We have not touched it. At this pivotal moment in the presidential campaign, here it is:

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. President, thank you for doing this.

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you for having me.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's start with the debate. Ah, you and your team said—have said you had a bad night, but your—

THE PRESIDENT: I sure did—[laughs]

STEPHANOPOULOS: --but your friend Nancy Pelosi actually framed the question that I think is on the minds of millions of Americans. Was this a bad episode or the sign of a more serious condition?

THE PRESIDENT: It was a bad episode. Ah, No indicated any serious condition. I was exhausted. I didn't listen to my instincts in terms of preparing and — and I had a bad night.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, you say you were exhausted and, and I know you've said that before as well, but you came, and you did have a tough month, but you came home from Europe about 11 or 12 days before the debate. Spent six days in Camp David. Why wasn't that enough rest time? Enough recovery time?

THE PRESIDENT: Because I was sick, I was feelin' terrible. Matter of fact, the docs with me, I asked if they did a COVID test—'cause they were trying to figure out what's wrong. They did a test to see whether or not I had som-- some infection. You know, a virus. I didn't. I just had a really bad cold.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And, ah, did you ever watch the debate afterwards?

THE PRESIDENT: I don't think I did, no.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, what I'm trying--I want to get at is uh, what were you experiencing as you were going through the debate? Did you know how badly it was going?

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, look. [pauses] The whole way I prepared—nobody's fault—mine. Nobody's fault but mine. I, uh, I prepared, what I usually would do, sittin' down as I did come back, with foreign leaders or the National Security Council, for explicit detail. And I realized—'bout partway through, that—you know, all—that--I get quoted that the New York Times had me down at ten points before the debate, nine now, or whatever the hell it is. The fact of the matter is, that what I looked at is that he also lied 28 times. I couldn't—I mean, the way the debate ran—not—my fault, nobody else's fault, no one else's fault—

STEPHANOPOULOS: But it seemed like you were having trouble from the first question in. Even before he spoke.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I just had a bad night. You've had some bad interviews once in a while, like I can't remember any, but I'm sure you did.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I've had plenty. I, I guess the question—the problem is here for a lot of Americans watching is, you've said, going back to 2020, "Watch me—"

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

STEPHANOPOULOS: --to people who are concerned about your age. And, you know, 50 million Americans watched that debate. It seemed to confirm fears they already had.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, look, after that debate I did ten major events, in a row including 'til 2:00 in the morning after that debate. I did events in North Carolina. I did events in, in, in Georgia. Did events like this, today—large crowds, overwhelming response. No, no, no slipping. And so I just had a bad night. I don't know why.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And, and, and, how quickly did it—did it come to you? That you were having that bad night?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, it came to me that I was havin' a bad night when I realized that even when I was answering the question, even though they turned his mic off, he was still shouting. And I, I let it distract me. That--but I'm not blaming it on that. But I realized that I just wasn't in control.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But part of the other concern is that, uh, this seems to have fit into a pattern of decline that has been reported on recently. New York Times had a headline on July 2nd: "Biden's Lapses are Said to be Increasingly Common and Worrisome." Here's what they wrote:

"People who've spent time with President Biden over the last few months or so said the lapses appear to have grown more frequent, more pronounced and after Thursday--Thursday's debate, more worrisome. By many accounts, as evidenced by video footage, observation, and interviews, Mr. Biden is not the same today as he was even when he took office three-and-a-half years ago." Similar reporting in The Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal.

Are you the same man today that you were when you took office three and a half years ago?

THE PRESIDENT: In terms of successes, yes. I also was the guy who put together a peace plan for the Middle East that may be comin' to fruition. I was also the guy that expanded NATO. I's also the guy that grew the economy. All the individual things that were done were ideas I had or I fulfilled. I moved on.

And so, for example, you know, well, well that was true then, what's Biden done lately? It's, it's, it's just today—just announced 200,000 new jobs. We're moving in a direction that no one's ever taken on. I know you know this from the days in the, in the, in the, in the government. I took on Big Pharma. I beat them. No one said I could beat them.

I took on, all the things we said, we got done—were told we couldn't get done. And part of it is—what I said when I ran was I wanted to do three things: Restore some decency to the Office; restore some support for the middle class instead of trickle down economics, build from the middle out and the bottom up the way the wealthy still do fine everyone does better; and unite the country.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But what has all that work over the last three-and-a-half years cost, you physically, mentally, emotionally?

THE PRESIDENT: Well. I, I, I just think it cost me a really bad night. A bad run. But--you know I, uh. --George, I have--I'm optimistic about this country. I don't think we're a country of losers that he points out. I don't think America's in tough shape. I think America is on the cusp of breaking through in so many incredible opportunities.

In this next term, I'm gonna make sure we gotta—straighten out the tax system. We're gonna make sure we're in a situation where we have health care for all people. Or we're in a position where we have, have child care and elder care. Free up and all these things.

One thing I'm proudest of, is, remember when my economic plan was put forward? A lot of the mainstream economists said it's not gonna work. Well, guess what? They now have 16 Nobel laureates, 16 of 'em, in economics, saying that Biden's next term would be sig—enor—based on what he wants to do—enormous success. Trump's plan would cause a recession, with sig, sig, sig increased inflation. I've made great progress and that's what I plan on doin'. And we can do this.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I, I, I, I understand that. And, and I'm not disputing that. What I'm asking you is, uh, about your personal situation. Do you dispute that there have been more lapses, especially in the last several months?

THE PRESIDENT: Can I run the hundred in ten flat? No. But I'm still in good shape.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you more frail?

THE PRESIDENT: No.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I know you spoke—

THE PRESIDENT: Come keep my schedule. [laughs]

STEPHANOPOULOS: I know you spoke with your doctor after the debate. What did he say?

THE PRESIDENT: He said, uh he just looked at me. He said, "You're exhausted." I said—look, I have medical doctors traveling everywhere--every President does, as you know--medical doctors, some of the best in the world, travel with me everywhere I go. I have an ongoing uh, assessment of what I'm doin'. And they don't hesitate to tell me if they think there's something wrong.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I know you said you have an ongoing assessment. Have you had a full neurological and cognitive evaluation?

THE PRESIDENT: I've had a —I get a full neurological test every day--with me. And I've had a full physical. I had, you know, I mean, I've, I've been at Walter Reed [Hospital] for my physicals. I mean, uh, yes, in answer.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I, I know your doctor said he consulted with a neurologist—I, I guess I'm asking a slightly different question. Have you had the specific cognitive tests and have you had a neurologist, a specialist, do an examination?

THE PRESIDENT: No. No one said I had to. No one said--they said I'm good.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Would you be willing to undergo an independent medical evaluation that included neurological and cogni—cognitive tests and release the results to the American people?

THE PRESIDENT: Look, I have a cognitive test every single day. Every day I have that test. Everything I do. You know, not only am I campaignin', but I'm runnin' the world. And, and that's not hi--sounds like hyperbole. But, we are the essential nation in the world. Madeline Albright was right.

And every single day—for example, today before I come out here, I'm on the phone with the—with the Prime Minister of--I know I shouldn't get into the detail, but with Netanyahu. I'm on the phone with the new Prime Minister of England. I'm workin' on what we were doing with regard to, in Europe, with regard to expansion of NATO and whether it's goin' to stick. I'm takin' on Putin. I mean--every day--there's no day I go through, there are not those decisions I have to make every single day.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you have been doing that and the American people have been watching. Yet their concerns about your age and your health are growing. So that's why I'm asking could-- To reassure them, would you be willing to have the independent medical evaluation?

THE PRESIDENT: Watch me between--there's a lotta time left in this campaign. It's over 125 days.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So the answer--

THE PRESIDENT: To make [or possibly "don't make"] the decision.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The right answer right now is "No. You, you don't want to do that right now.

THE PRESIDENT: No, I've already done it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You talked a lot about your successes in, at the beginning of this interview and, and I don't wanna dispute that--I don't wanna debate that. But as you know, elections are about the future, not the past. They're about tomorrow, not yesterday. And the question on so many people's minds right now is, can you serve effectively for the next four years?

THE PRESIDENT: George. I'm the guy that put NATO together--the future. No one thought I could expand it. I'm the guy that shut Putin down. No one thought could happen. I'm the guy that put together the South Pacific initiative with AUKUS. I'm the guy that got fifty nations, out--not only in Europe--outside of Europe as well, to help Ukraine. I'm the guy that got Japanese to expand their budget.

I'm the--so I mean, and, the--for example, when I decided--we used to have 40% of the computer chip in--we invented the chip--of those little chips--computer chip. It's in everything from a cell phone to weapons. And so we used to have 40% of, we're down to virtually nothin'. So I get in the plane against the advice of everybody and I fly to South Korea. I convinced them to invest in the United States. Billions of dollars. Now we have tens of billions of dollars bein' invested in the United States, making us back in the position we're gonna own that industry again.

We have, I mean—I, I guess--anyway. I'm not—I don't wanna take too much credit, I have great staff.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But all that—my--I guess my point is all that takes a toll. Do you have the mental and physical capacity to do it for another four years?

THE PRESIDENT: I believe--I wouldn't be runnin' if I didn't think of I did.

Look [pauses]--I'm runnin' again because I think I understand best what has to be done. To take this nation to a completely n-, new level, we're on our way. We're on our way.

And look, the decision recently made by the Supreme Court on immunity. You know, the next President of the United States, it's not just about whether he or she knows what they're doin'.

It's — it's — it's not, not about acon — a conglomerate of people making decisions. It's about the character of the President. The character of the President's gonna determine whether or not this Constitution is employed the right way.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me ask you a tougher, more personal question. Are you sure you're being honest with yourself when you say you have the mental and physical capacity to serve another four years?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I am. Because George, the last thing I wanna do is not be able to meet that. I think as some of senior economists and senior foreign policy specialists say, if I stop now, I go down in history as a pretty successful President. No one thought I could get done what we got done.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But are you being with, honest with yourself as well about your ability to defeat Donald Trump, right now?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes! Yes, yes, yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You say that and let me challenge you—

THE PRESIDENT: Sure.

STEPHANOPOULOS: --because you were close, but behind going into the debate. Uh, you're further behind now by, by any measure. It's been a two-man race for several months. Inflation has come down. In those last few months, he's become a convicted felon. Yet you're still falling further behind.

THE PRESIDENT: You guys keep saying that. George, do you--look, you know polling better than anybody. You think polling data's accurate as it used to be?

STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think so, but I think when you look at all the polling data right now, it shows that he's certainly ahead in the popular vote, probably ev-, even more ahead in the battleground states. And one of the other key factors there, is it shows that in many of the battleground states, the Democrats who are running for Senate and the House, are doing better than you are.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, that's not unusual in some states. I carried an awful lotta Democrats last time I ran, in 2020. Look, I remember them tellin' me the same thing in 2020. I can't win, the poll show I can't win. Number 2024--2020 the red wave was coming.

Before the vote, I said, "That's not gonna happen. We're gonna win." We did better in an off-year than almost any incumbent president ever has done. They said in 2023, all the tough races, we're not gonna win. I went into all those areas and all those, all those districts, and we won.

STEPHANOPOULOS: All that is true, but 2020 was a close race and your approval rating has dropped significantly since then. I think the last poll I saw was about 36%.

THE PRESIDENT: Whoa, whoa, whoa.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The number of Americans who think you're too old to serve has doubled since 2020. Wouldn't a clear-eyed political calculus tell you that it's gonna be much tougher to win in 2024?.

THE PRESIDENT: Not when you're running against a pathological liar. Not when he hadn't been challenged in a way that he's about to be challenged. Not when people--

STEPHANOPOULOS: You've had months to challenge him.

THE PRESIDENT: Oh sure, I had months, but I was also doin' a hell of a lot of other things, like wars around the world, like keeping NATO together, like working--anyway. But look--

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you really believe you're not behind right now?

THE PRESIDENT: I think it's--all pollsters I talk to tell me it's a toss-up. It's a toss-up. And when I'm behind, there's only one poll I'm really far behind--CBS poll and NBC. I mean, excuse me. And uh—

STEPHANOPOULOS: New York Times and NBC both you have, have you about six points behind in the popular vote.

THE PRESIDENT: That's exactly right. New York Times had me behind before anything having to do with this race and behind behind 10 points, 10 points had me behind. Nothing's changed substantially from the debate in the New York Times poll.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Just--when you look at the reality, though, Mr. President, I mean, ah, you won the popular vote, ah, in 2020, but it was still deadly close in the Electoral College--

THE PRESIDENT: By 7 million votes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, but you're behind now in the popular vote.

THE PRESIDENT: I don't. I don't buy that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Is it worth the risk?

THE PRESIDENT: I don't think anybody's more qualified to be President or win this race than me.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You know the heart of your case against Donald Trump--it is that he's only out for himself. Putting his personal interest ahead of the national interest. How do you respond to critics who say that by staying in the race, you're doing the same thing?

THE PRESIDENT: Ohh come on! Well, I don't think those critics know what they're talkin' about.

STEPHANOPOULOS: They're just wrong?

THE PRESIDENT: They're just wrong! Look, Trump is a pathological liar. Trump is—he, he is—[pauses]. Have you ever seen anything Trump did that benefited som, somebody else, not him? I'm, I'm, you can't answer, I know.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I've I've questioned him and his allies as persistently as any journalists has.

THE PRESIDENT: No, I know you have. I'm not being critical. I'm not being critical. But look, I mean. [pauses]

The man is a congenital liar. As I said, they pointed out in that debate, he lied 27-28 times--The Times--or whatever number, over 20 times. Talk about how his good his economy was, how he brought down inflation, and how--this is a guy who, unlike only other president of other'n him is Hoover, lost more jobs than he created.

This's the guy told us to put bleach in our arms to deal with COVID with a million, over a million people died.

This is the guy who talks about wanna get rid of the healthcare provision we put in place. This is the guy who wants to give the power back to Big Pharma to be able to charge exorbitant prices for drugs. This is the guy who wants to undo every single thing I've done, every single, ev, every single thing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I, I understand that. I understand that's why you want to stay in the race. But have you convinced yourself that only you can defeat him?

THE PRESIDENT: I convinced myself of two things: I'm the most qualified person to beat 'im, and I know how to get things done.

STEPHANOPOULOS: If you can be convinced that you cannot defeat Donald Trump, will you stand down?

THE PRESIDENT: [laughing] Well, it depends on whether the Lord Almighty comes down and tells me that, I might do that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, uh, uh, I mean, on a more practical level, Washington Post just reported it in the last hour that Senator Mark Warner is, is assembling a group of Senators together to try to convince you to stand down because they don't think you can win.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, Mark is a good man. We've never had that--he also tried to get the nomination too. Mark's, not—Mark and I have a different perspective, I respect him.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And if Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and Nancy Pelosi come down and say, "We're worried that if you stay in the race, we're gonna lose the House and the Senate," how will you respond?

THE PRESIDENT: I, I'd go into detail with 'em, I've speaken to all of 'em in detail, including Jim Clyburn. Every one of 'em. They all said I should stay in the race. Stay in the race. No one said--none of the people said I should leave the race.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But, if they do?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, uh, it's like—[laugh] they're not gonna do that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're sure?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, yeah, I'm sure. Look. I mean, if the Lord Almighty came down and said, "Joe, get outta the race," I'd get outta the race. The Lord Almighty's not comin' down. I mean these hypotheticals, George—"if." I mean if all--

STEPHANOPOULOS: But, but it's, it's, it's not that hypothetical any more. It--I, I, I grant that the, they have not requested the meeting. But it's been reported--

THE PRESIDENT: But, well, they, I've met with them. I've met with a lotta these people. I've talked with them regularly. I had an hour conversation with Hakeem. I had more time than that with Jim Clyburn. I spent time with, many hours, off and on, the last little bit with Chuck Schumer. It's not like--I had all the governors. All the governors.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I agree that the Lord Almighty's not gonna come down, but if—if—if you are told, reliably from your allies, from your friends and supporters in the Democratic Party, in the House and the Senate, that they're concerned you're gonna lose the House and the Senate if you stay in, what will you do?

THE PRESIDENT: I'm not gonna answer that question. It's not gonna happen.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What's your plan to turn the campaign around?

THE PRESIDENT: You saw it today. How many f--how many people can you get--draw crowds like I drew today? You find many more enthusiastic than today? Huh?

STEPHANOPOULOS: I mean I--I don't think you wanna play the crowd game. Donald Trump can draw big crowds. There's no question about that.

THE PRESIDENT: He can draw a big crowd, but what's he saying? Wha? Who, who's he have? I'm the guy supposedly in trouble. We raised $38 million within four days after this. Over, we have over a million individual contributors. Individual contributors. Less, less than 200 bucks. Yeah, I mean. I've not seen what you're, you're proposing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You haven't seen the, the fall-off in the polls? You haven't seen the reports of discontent in the Democratic Party, House Democrats, Senate Democrats?

THE PRESIDENT: I've seen it from the press.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, I've heard from dozens of your supporters over the last few days, and, and a variety of views, I grant you that. But, uh, the prevailing sentiment is this. Uh...

They love you. And they will be forever grateful to you for defeating Donald Trump in 2020. They think you've done a great job as President. A lot of the successes you outlined. But they are worried about you and the country, and they don't think you can win. They want you to go with grace, and they will cheer you if you do. Whadda you say to that?

THE PRESIDENT: I say the vast majority are not with that, where those folks are. I don't doubt there's some folks there. Have you ever seen a group, a, a time when elected officials running for office aren't a little worried? Have you ever seen that? I've not. Same thing happened in 2020. "Aww, Biden, I don't know, man, what's he gonna do? Uhh, He may bring me down. He may--."

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. President, I've never seen a President 36 percent approval get reelected.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't believe that's my approval rating. That's not what our polls show.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And if you stay in and Trump is elected and everything you're warning about comes to pass, how will you feel in January?

THE PRESIDENT: I'll feel as long as I gave it my all and I did the good as job as I know I can do—that's what this is about. Look, George. Think of it this way. You've heard me say this before. I think the United States and the world is at an inflection point where the things that happen in the next several years are gonna determine what the next six, seven decades'll look like. And who's gonna be able to hold NATO together like me? Who's gonna be able to be in a position where I'm able to keep the Pacific basin in a position where we're we're at least check-mating China now? Who's gonna, who's gonna do that? Who has that reach, who has? Who knows all these pe…? We're gonna have, I guess, a, a good way to judge me is you're gonna have now the NATO conference, here in the United States next week. Come listen. See what they say.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. President, thanks for your time.

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.

STEPHANOPOULOS: ABC News also offered a one-on-one interview to Donald Trump after the debate. He declined. Let's bring in our political team for what they're hearing.