Interview With the President Question-and-Answer Session With Dan Shilon of Israeli Television.

MR. SHILON. Mr. President, less than 2 weeks ago, when you addressed the Israeli Knesset, you said, and I quote, "The people of the two nations are ready now for peace. The leaders have not yet proven that we are also ready for peace, enough to take the chance."

Now, after the leaders approved the peace treaty, it seems that the leaders are celebrating. The peoples are still a bit cautious about it. How can you explain it?

THE PRESIDENT. Well, let me correct you, first of all. I didn't say the leaders of the two nations; I said we leaders. And I was referring also to the adjacent countries, Syria and Jordan, where I believe a substantial portion of the population are intensely desirous of peace and an end to hatred and terrorism and destruction and death. So, that's what I meant when I talked to the Knesset.

I don't believe that the peace treaties can have their full, permanent, beneficial impact if they are just based on a relationship between or among leaders or documents, because Sadat, Begin, Carter will not be in office many years under the best of circumstances. And until we have a genuine interrelationship among the people of, say, Egypt and Israel, we can't have the full connotation of the meaning of peace. We need students to move freely back and forth between the two countries, tourists, open borders, free use of the Suez Canal, the Straits of Tiran. We need increased trade, mutual investment, exchange of employees back and forth between the two countries, an opening up of trade between Israel and the United States, Egypt and the United States and Western Europe, that hasn't been there before.

As soon as the people of the two countries get to know each other, to trust each other, to like each other, to become mutually dependent on each other, to recognize their common future, common problems, common opportunities, at that point, peace will be permanent and will be full.

And I think that's the best way to demonstrate to the Palestinians, to the Jordanians, to the Syrians, and others, the full advantages to them of emulating what Egypt and Israel have already done.

MR. SHILON. But on the other hand, what are the risks to Israel and to Egypt, if there are any, by signing the peace treaty?

THE PRESIDENT. Well, I think the risks of not signing it are much greater than the risks of signing it. Obviously, there is going to be a period of time within which the PLO and some of the Arab countries will threaten increased violence or economic punishment, terrorism, instability. I really believe that that period is going to be relatively brief.

So, to compare the risks with the advantages of signing the peace treaty, obviously, the advantages far outweigh the risks.

There are some doubts about the future. This is kind of a new life, and both countries are going into the unknown with great predictions of problems. I think the problems have been grossly exaggerated from the very beginning. And, of course, to the extent that we can use our influence in a beneficial way, the United States is not only willing but eager to guarantee that the outcome of the peace negotiations will be fulfilled to their complete degree.

And we can help to alleviate some of these concerns. And if problems do arise that we cannot presently anticipate, we'll be full partners in trying to address those problems when they become evident.

MR. SHILON. Can you foresee realistically that Syria, Jordan, and the Palestinians, encouraged by Saudi Arabia, will cooperate with the continuation of the peace process?

THE PRESIDENT. I think this is a very good possibility in the future. But there's going to be a transition period when they try to posture and threaten and see if they can weaken the ties of friendship and peace between Israel and Egypt.

I think they'll be unsuccessful in trying to destroy the peace process when it becomes evident that the advantages of peace directly improve the quality of life of the Israelis and the Egyptians. In my opinion, the large number of Jordanians who also presently want peace will become much more vocal, and perhaps King Hussein and the other Arab leaders will say, "Well, this is a good thing for me and my people as well." I think that could very well happen in the future.

MR. SHILON. Mr. President, during the past year, you mentioned several times the right of the Palestinians to participate in their own determination of their own future.

THE PRESIDENT. Yes.

MR. SHILON. This participation is now defined as self-rule or autonomy. Could the following steps, after establishing the self-rule, lead to an independent Palestinian state?

THE PRESIDENT. Well, we drafted this language, the Palestinians' right to participate in the determination of their own future, very carefully. It's been adopted by both Israel and Egypt as a basis for the Camp David agreements. And, of course, that's incorporated within the peace treaties themselves. Also, the principles expressed in United Nations Resolutions 242 and 338 are part of the Camp David agreements, and also this treaty.

It's not up to the United States to decide the ultimate status of the West Bank or the Gaza area. This is the reason for the future negotiations, in which not only the Palestinians but also the Jordanians and the Egyptians will negotiate.

So, I don't want to say what the ultimate status or who has sovereignty might be. The first step, to define what is—to use Prime Minister Begin's word—full autonomy, will be difficult enough without my trying to decide here what decision might be reached 5 years in the future on the permanent status.

MR. SHILON. Can you define the exact American attitude these days towards the PLO?

THE PRESIDENT. Our attitude these days is the same as it has been for a long time. The PLO have not been willing to recognize the applicability of United Nations Resolution 242, and the PLO have not been willing to accept the right of Israel to exist. Until the PLO is willing to do these things, we will not deal with the PLO.

MR. SHILON. Mr. President, are you actually suggesting a defense treaty between Israel and the United States?

THE PRESIDENT. No. We've never suggested this. But there will be a memorandum of understanding that will exist between Israel and the United States for the first time. It will be fairly far-reaching, and it's exactly what we want and exactly what Israel wants as well.

We've never had any sort of proposals on either side that there be an actual defense treaty between our two countries. I think Israel has always cherished the concept that they are perfectly able to defend themselves. And I think that's an accurate assessment.

MR. SHILON. It seems that accomplishing this goal was important to you personally, at least as important as to the parties involved.

THE PRESIDENT. Yes.

MR. SHILON. Why was that?

THE PRESIDENT. It's important to my country. We have a political, a philosophical, and a moral commitment to Israel-Israel's right to exist, to exist permanently, to exist securely, to exist in prosperity, and to exist in peace. And this is not a personal-this is not merely a personal belief of mine, but it's a belief that accurately represents the overwhelming portion of the American people.

Additionally, we have a strong friendship with Egypt. And obviously, it's to our own Nation's advantage to have our two friends, who are permanent neighbors, be friends with each other.

So, in addition to the personal commitment that I've had, I think I accurately represent what's best for my country and the aspirations which the people of my country have cherished for many years.

MR. SHILON. Mr. President, finally, during the ups and downs of the negotiations, was there any moment in which you felt despair or thought of giving up your efforts?

THE PRESIDENT. I despaired many times, but I never reached such a state of discouragement that I thought about giving up. I was always determined to continue the peace process as long as I hold the office of President of the United States. And if there should evolve, in the future, problems, I'll be just as determined to work for peace as I have been in the past.

MR. SHILON. Mr. President, thank you so much for spending your time with us.

THE PRESIDENT. It's been a pleasure for me. Thank you.