Interview with Tom Brokaw on NBC's "Meet the Press"

BROKAW: Senator, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R-AZ): Well, thank...

MR. BROKAW: It's been a while. I know you've been busy, but it's good to have you back here again.

SEN. McCAIN: Well, thank you. I noticed you mentioned, nine months. I think I still have been more appearances on MEET THE PRESS than anybody else.

MR. BROKAW: I think that's true, except maybe Bob Dole's probably got a few more than you. But he's got a few years on you.

SEN. McCAIN: Still time to catch up.

MR. BROKAW: Listen, I, I don't have the most encouraging news for you today from the NBC News/Mason Dixon poll. Here in Iowa, it now shows that Obama has a lead of 11 points, 51 to 40 points--percent. Four years ago, as you know, George Bush won this state. It's been determined a battleground state. But the lead has been widening for Senator Obama right along the way. I know you're a film buff, so let me begin with a film metaphor. Do you feel more like Kevin Costner in the "Field of Dreams," or like George Clooney at the--at the tiller of the ship in "A Perfect Storm"?

SEN. McCAIN: I, I think that I could draw my own, and I'd have to think of it, maybe, maybe "The Gipper." I feel like when--I feel like Knute Rockne when--at halftime when he said, "You go out there and get one for the Gipper." And look, those polls have been consistently shown me much further behind than we actually are. It all depends on the voter turnout model. And, and everybody gets bored except for us junkies about the process and aught. We're doing fine. We have closed in the last week. We continue this close through next week, you're going to be up very, very late on election night.

We are very competitive in many of the battleground states, and I see these polls ranging from a 3 point gap today in Zogby to your 11 point one. And they're all over the map; and, obviously, I choose to trust my senses as well as polls. And the enthusiasm at almost all of our campaign events is at a higher level that I've ever seen. And I've been in a lot of presidential campaigns, usually as the warm-up act or, you know, one of those things. And I see intensity out there and I see passion. So we're very competitive here, and I'm very happy with where we are and I'm very proud of the campaign that I've run.

MR. BROKAW: Senator, in the last of the presidential debates moderated by Bob Schieffer, you drew greater distinction between yourself and George Bush. You said, "I am not George Bush." And then this past week in The Washington Times, a newspaper in Washington, this was the account, "Senator John McCain blasted President Bush for building a mountain of debt for future generations, failing to pay for expanding Medicare, and abusing executive powers, leveling his strongest criticism to date of the administration whose unpopularity may be dragging the Republican Party to the brink of a massive electoral defeat.

"`We just let things get completely out of hand,' he said of his own party's rule in the last eight years." But then we have an account of you on MEET THE PRESS going back to June 2005.

SEN. McCAIN: Yes.

MR. BROKAW: And this is what you had to say about your relationship with President Bush at that time.

(Videotape, June 19, 2005):

SEN. McCAIN: The fact is that I'm different, but the fact is that I have agreed with President Bush far more than I have disagreed. And on the transcendent issues, the most important issues of our day, I have been totally in agreement and support of President Bush. So I strongly disagree with any assertion that I've been more at odds with the president of the United States than I have been in agreement with.

(End videotape)

(Videotape, March 5, 2008):

SEN. McCAIN: Well, I'm very honored and humbled to have the opportunity to receive the endorsement of the president of the United States, a man who I have great admiration, respect and affection. I intend to have as much possible campaigning events and--together as--in keeping with the president's heavy schedule, and I look forward to that opportunity.

(End videotape)

MR. BROKAW: Senator McCain, both in tone and language, you are very close with President Bush in those appearances. The Congressional Quarterly did a review of your votes, 92 percent of the time you voted with President Bush. So it's a little hard for the public to separate you from this administration, isn't it?

SEN. McCAIN: Well, it may be the way you describe it. And, by the way, the last interview that I did with The Washington Times, of course I've been repeating for the last eight years that the spending was out of control. That's why I voted against these projects--these pork barrel spending. I was the harshest critic of the failed strategy in Iraq and pointed it out in hearing after hearing and fought against it. I've supported action to address climate change, from--since 2000 and said we've got to do something about it. There were sharp disagreements there. There were a number of disagreements on general overall philosophy. I am a Republican. I respect the president of the United States. Of course we let spending get completely out of control, and I've been talking about it for a long, long period of time.

Now, I know how it is on this show. You show various segments and comments that we make thousands of, and I understand that. But the fact is I am not George Bush. The fact is that I was not popular within my own party. The fact is that when I said that we were failing in Iraq and we were going to lose, I was criticized by Republicans. The fact is when I did campaign finance reform with Russ Feingold, I was opposed by my own party and my own president. So do we share a common philosophy of the Republican Party? Of course. But I've, I've stood up against my party, not just President Bush, but others; and I've got the scars to prove it, including taking up, with Ted Kennedy, immigration reform, knowing full well that that was going to hurt my chances in the primaries. So I could go down a long list of issues with you.

Do I respect President Bush? Of course I respect him. But I pointed out we were on the wrong track in a whole lot of ways, including a $10 trillion deficit, including saying we got to rein in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and, and propose legislation to try to fix it before that triggered the housing collapse, including today when I'm saying they should be going out and buying up these mortgages and giving people mortgages that they can afford rather than bailing out the banks.

MR. BROKAW: We're going to get to that...

SEN. McCAIN: Sure.

MR. BROKAW: ...very issue in a moment. One of the things that you've been saying in the course of your campaign is that Senator Obama has neither the experience nor the judgment to be the president of the United States. We've got some polls on how he's doing with the American voter on some of the critical issues of the day. This is the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll that was taken from October 17th to October 20th.

On health care, who's better equipped to deal with that? Obama has a 39 point advantage over you in that poll. As you can see, the economy is up 21 points; the housing crisis, a 21 point advantage; taxes, 14; in Iraq, you have an advantage over Senator Obama of about 5 points. These are not pundits...

SEN. McCAIN: We finally found a pony.

MR. BROKAW: These are not the pundits or the media elite. This is a broad-based poll across the country.

SEN. McCAIN: Yeah. That I don't agree with.

MR. BROKAW: People making judgments about who's qualified.

SEN. McCAIN: But I don't agree with their, with their conclusion that I'm a, quote, 11 or 12 or 14 point, whatever it is. We have polls, including I think a Zogby poll, showing us 3 or 4 points behind. So if you want to continue to referring to a poll that I disagree with, I have to start out our conversation I don't agree with that. We are closing and we have been closing.

MR. BROKAW: But it's not the only poll, Senator. A number of polls show that.

SEN. McCAIN: Oh, and it's not the only poll that shows us close.

MR. BROKAW: Mm-hmm.

SEN. McCAIN: So, you know, I'm sure we don't want to spend the morning arguing about polls that are accurate or inaccurate, but I will stand before the American people with my view that, that I think that we don't, we cannot fine small business people and their, you know, or their employ--small business people who have employees without health insurance, that he's going to fine them if they don't have, have the insurance policy that they want, that Senator Obama wants them to have. That if they have children that don't have health insurance that Senator Obama wants them to have, they will be fined. That he wants to spend an addition trillion dollars. I'll stand on those issues. I'll stand on them, and I'll take the verdict of the American people. And I guarantee you that two weeks from now you will see this has been a very close race. And I believe that I'm going to win it.

MR. BROKAW: All right. I, I, I don't want to dwell on these polls unduly.

SEN. McCAIN: Yeah.

MR. BROKAW: But even if you had a big...

SEN. McCAIN: Here we go again.

MR. BROKAW: ...if you even had, even if you had a big margin of error...

SEN. McCAIN: I can give, I can show you...

MR. BROKAW: Yeah.

SEN. McCAIN: ...again, a Zogby poll and our poll and other polls that will show different numbers than the one you're showing. So...

MR. BROKAW: Well, yeah, but those are the big universe polls.

SEN. McCAIN: So you're starting out, in all due respect...

MR. BROKAW: Yeah.

SEN. McCAIN: ...with fundamental assumptions that I don't agree with. So it's hard for me to respond to assumptions that I don't agree with.

On the economy, look, we just, we just figured it out with "Joe the Plumber." Americans just figured it out. He wants to spread the wealth around. And every time there's a poll, there's a different tax plan. There's a different tax plan for America. He's the guy that Senator Obama voted to--for a Democrat budget resolution with will impose taxes on individuals making $42,000 a year. That's just a fact. He wants to raise taxes in a time of economic difficulties.

MR. BROKAW: But he continues to insist that...

SEN. McCAIN: The last time a president of the United States that did that was a guy named Herbert Hoover, protectionism and raising taxes.

MR. BROKAW: Well, Ronald Reagan raised taxes as well, after the first two years in office.

SEN. McCAIN: Not in these times. Not in times--not in economic times like these.

MR. BROKAW: Well, right after the recession he did, in the first two years of his office.

SEN. McCAIN: Well, look, I would be glad to review the Reagan record, but the Reagan record was certainly one that reined in spending.

MR. BROKAW: Well, let me ask you...

SEN. McCAIN: And certainly one that I'm very proud of in as far as both their economic and national security policies.

MR. BROKAW: Well, let me ask you about that business about spreading the wealth around...

SEN. McCAIN: Sure.

MR. BROKAW: ...which has been a favorite phrase now of the McCain campaign. And also your vice presidential candidate has used the word "socialist" and "socialism."

SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.

MR. BROKAW: Do you honestly think that Barack Obama would have as his advisers--Warren Buffet; Paul Volcker, former chairman of the Federal Reserve under Ronald Reagan, who is widely credited with saving the economy at that time; Bob Rubin, former Treasury secretary; and even Chris Buckley, the son of the godfather of the modern conservative movement--both endorsing his economic policies and help shaping them if they thought he was a socialist of some kind?

SEN. McCAIN: All I know is that Senator Obama's record is very clear. It's his record, not Volcker's record, not anybody else's. He started out in the lefthand lane of American politics and has remained there. He has been judged the most liberal United States senator. Biden's number three. "Joe the Biden" is number three. Bernie Sanders is number two. And, and I respect that. But let's not, let's not call it anything but it is.

MR. BROKAW: Well, he...

SEN. McCAIN: He's voted for tax increases, against tax cuts, has advocated raising capital gains tax. Another, another anchor, Charlie Gibson, said, "Why would you want to raise capital gains taxes and--when you know that that could decrease revenue?" He said, "It's a matter of fairness." He said to "Joe the Plumber," it's "spreading the wealth around." I, I--his political philosophy is very, very different about what he believes is future of America's concerned.

MR. BROKAW: Well, can we, can we...

SEN. McCAIN: I believe the worst thing you can do is raise taxes.

MR. BROKAW: Can we share with the audience, then, a couple of...

SEN. McCAIN: Sure. Sure.

MR. BROKAW: ...your comments about taxing wealthy Americans?

SEN. McCAIN: Sure.

MR. BROKAW: This is from April 11th, 2004. It's MEET THE PRESS...

SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.

MR. BROKAW: ...and this is what you had to say about wealthy Americans and taxes at that time.

(Videotape)

SEN. McCAIN: I voted against the tax cuts because of the disproportional amount that went to the wealthiest Americans.

(End videotape)

MR. BROKAW: And then this is what you had to say on "Hardball" back in 2000 to Chris Matthews.

(Videotape, October 12, 2000)

SEN. McCAIN: Here's what I, I, I really believe, that when you are--reach a certain level of comfort, there's nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.

(End videotape)

SEN. McCAIN: That's what--listen, even the flat tax people somewhat pay more. Even--you put into different, different categories of wealthier people paying, paying higher taxes into different brackets. I mean, and the, and these are different times, my friend. These are times of the biggest financial crisis we've faced in America.

MR. BROKAW: Well, let me raise that, then, if I...

SEN. McCAIN: So, so let me just tell you again, I also said, when I opposed the Bush tax cuts, said--that is left out of this equation, I said I've got to--we've got to get spending under control. Spending was completely out of control. We laid a $10 trillion debt on future generations of America. We owe the Chinese a half a trillion dollars. Spending was, was the, was the, I think, the really biggest aspect, to a large degree. It weakens the dollar, it raises the cost of goods to Americans. The housing crisis combined with a, with a country that's living way beyond its means is a, is a combination which has put us into this great financial crisis we're in. So...

MR. BROKAW: But there, there is this continuing use...

SEN. McCAIN: ...I feel that...

MR. BROKAW: ...of the phrase "socialism." How would you describe the $700 billion bailout that has the United States government buying shares in American banks, in effect nationalizing those banks to a degree, and even your own mortgage plan of spending $300 billion to buy bad mortgages from banks, having taxpayers who have done the responsible thing, in effect, subsidize people who've done the dumb or wrong thing?

SEN. McCAIN: Because we are in a financial crisis of monumental proportions. The role of government is to intervene when a nation is in crisis. A homeowner's loan corporation was instituted in the Great Depression. They went out and they bought people's mortgages, and, over time, people were able, then, to pay back those mortgages. And the Treasury actually made some money.

This Treasury in this administration is spending its time bailing out the banks. The cause of the crisis was the housing crisis, as we know. And how--home values, as long as they continue to decline, then we're not going to see a turnaround in this economy. A lot of other things have to happen, have to happen, but at least let's understand that we ought to keep people in their homes. That's the American dream. And they say now that maybe they're going to address that problem. Let's address it first. And so when a, when a nation is in crisis, that's when a government has to intervene.

Now, a lot of the times you were talking about, 2004, other times, times were pretty good overall. You had different--you have to have different roles of government in different times. I'm a fundamentally--obviously, a strong conservative. But when we're in a crisis of this nature, that's when government has to help. That's, that's what, that's what our fundamental belief--the reason why we have governments. In times of crisis, we go in and we try and help the people, especially in this situation where they're the, the victim of a drive-by shooting by excess, greed and corruption in Washington and Wall Street. And again, I and others said we have to have legislation to rein it in. Senator Obama didn't lift a finger.

MR. BROKAW: Well, you did--you made your comments about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac at the time of the accounting issue, when that was first raised. Can you cite a time...

SEN. McCAIN: In, in reality, we, we proposed legislation and made a statement that said, "Look, it's not just the accounting, this whole process is going to lead to disaster." I'd be glad to provide you with the letter.

MR. BROKAW: Let me ask you quickly about your $300 billion bailout of, of mortgages.

SEN. McCAIN: Hm.

MR. BROKAW: Some people have said, look, if there's a homeowner out there who's done the irresponsible thing...

SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.

MR. BROKAW: ...and a bank is looking at that foreclosure and saying, "Hey, I don't have to work this out. I can just get the government to pick it up," why should a taxpayer in Waterloo, Iowa, or in Akron, Ohio, have to subsidize somebody who has done the dumb, wrong thing?

SEN. McCAIN: Well, in simplest terms, if their neighbor next door throws the keys in the living room floor and leaves, then the value of their home is going to dramatically decrease as well. And again, this has been done before. As I said, during the Great Depression and...

MR. BROKAW: And that's when Republicans called it socialism under FDR.

SEN. McCAIN: Well, look, in the Great Depression, there were some things that worked and some things that didn't work. But for the government to do nothing in the face of a massive crisis of proportions that we have not seen, I mean, it's hard for us to imagine how, in, in retrospect, how serious the Great Depression was, but the fact is that Senator Obama, by the way, opposes that, that; and I want to use some of the $750 billion to go and buy those mortgages and that, I think, will stabilize the market. It's not the only thing that needs to be done, but I think it's a vital first step so Americans can realize the American dream.

MR. BROKAW: I stop...

SEN. McCAIN: And by the way, this is primary residences.

MR. BROKAW: Yeah.

SEN. McCAIN: There's a lot of circumstances that, yeah.

MR. BROKAW: I stopped briefly in Michigan on the way here and that's a state in meltdown, as well as you know, and the Center for Automotive Research at Ann Arbor says unless Chrysler, GM and Ford get $15 billion, they'll run out of money in a year and the American auto industry could disappear. Do you think that the American government should give those three automotive makers $15 billion to tide them over. And is it important to preserve the American brand of automobile?

SEN. McCAIN: Well, let's get the first $25 billion to them first. That way--we, we just gave them $25 million. Let's give them the $25 million and see how that works before we say we're going to give you some more.

MR. BROKAW: But they say they need another $15 billion in addition to that.

SEN. McCAIN: Well, again, let's get the $25 billion to them to, to start with and see how that goes. But let me just give an example. There's a microcosm there. There's an example. Michigan thinks we got tough, so guess what? They raised taxes. They raised taxes in Michigan, and guess what? Things got worse. Michigan, as I understand it, is second--one of two states in America that has a declining population because businesses are fleeing the state. So the worst thing we can do is increase taxes. And Senator Obama wants to do that, and now it's $200,000. I guess last week it was $250,000. It changes with ever--whatever the polling data tells him and his advisers. But the fact is you don't want to raise anyone's taxes in tough times.

And just one other thing is businesses now are paying 35 percent taxes. Now, immediately, somebody's going to say, "Well, they don't pay that 35 percent." Ask Fred Smith, the CEO of FedEx; ask Meg Whitman, the CEO of eBay; ask John Chambers, the CEO of Cisco; they'll tell you that they pay 35 percent, OK? But they'll also tell you that one of the reasons why they're attracted to going overseas, to Ireland, it's 11 percent tax there. So why not go to Ireland where you can get qualified workers and, and you can save money and create jobs and, and invest? So this business about fat cat bailout and corporate, all that kind of stuff, we need to reduce the business tax in America and we need to keep, and we need to keep capital gains taxes low. That's 100 million Americans who have something to do with capital gains taxes.

MR. BROKAW: Senator, let me...

SEN. McCAIN: So we have a stark difference. Senator Obama wants to "spread the wealth around," "fairness." And that, that is the most liberal economic position that I've seen in the United States of America. Just a fact.

MR. BROKAW: Let me ask you some facts about your running mate.

SEN. McCAIN: Sure.

MR. BROKAW: Governor Sarah Palin. You continue to defend her, she continues to light up Republican rallies wherever she goes.

SEN. McCAIN: I don't, I don't defend her. I praise her.

MR. BROKAW: Yeah.

SEN. McCAIN: I don't defend her. And she needs...

MR. BROKAW: Here's the latest...

SEN. McCAIN: ...no defense.

MR. BROKAW: All right.

SEN. McCAIN: And here's another poll, the same way.

MR. BROKAW: Let me, let me share with you another poll if I can. The Washington Post/ABC News poll and this is what we have to share with our audience here today on that. When she came out of the convention, she had a 59 percent favorable rating, it's now down to 46 percent, unfavorable is up to 51 percent. This may be the most critical issue for you, and that is independent voters, women voters, her favorable rating now among them is just 40 percent. It was 64 percent right after the convention, and it's now 59 percent. Many people think that she's just simply not qualified to be president.

SEN. McCAIN: Because? Not qualified because?

MR. BROKAW: She's not qualified because she's had a lot of exposure in the last three months or so, a vice presidential debate, a number of interviews with people who were selected by your campaign, after all. She's had--some of those interviews were quite friendly, not necessarily prosecutorial. And they have come to the conclusion, based on everything that we're seeing, that she's not qualified to be president.

SEN. McCAIN: Well, I--the--first of all, I thought she did fine in, in the--actually, so did most people--in the debate with, with Senator Biden. She has more executive experience than Senator Biden and, and Senator Obama together. She took on the governor of her own party because she had seen what she's thought was corruption. She's been a mayor. She has 24,000 people underneath her. Her husband is a--works the third shift on a oil--in--facilities on the North Slope. He's a--they, they have a--she has executive experience and has given back money to the taxpayers. She has taken Democrats as well as Republicans into her administration. It sounds like I'm, I'm "defending" her, but the fact is she is a dynamic person with executive experience, leadership, reform. She's exactly what Washington needs. I'm so proud of the way she ignites the crowds. The way that she is--she has conducted herself is, in my view, incredibly admirable. I am--do we--do, do Sarah Palin and I disagree on a specific issue? Yeah, because we're both mavericks. But we share the same goal of cleaning up Washington. You think some--we will clean up and reform Washington together, and she has the credentials and the vision and the dynamism and the strength to do that. I could not be more proud of her.

MR. BROKAW: You know in politics that symbols are very powerful.

SEN. McCAIN: Sure.

MR. BROKAW: Those pictures of you when you were a prisoner of war in Hanoi have been a very powerful reminder of what you went through. And then in the last 10 days or so, we've learned that the Republican National Committee spent $150,000 on her wardrobe at Neiman Marcus and at Saks when she was portraying herself as a hockey mom representing the values of Main Street. Wasn't that a colossal mistake on the part of the RNC?

SEN. McCAIN: Look, she lives a frugal life. She and her family are not wealthy. She and her family were thrust into this, and there was some--and some third of that money is given back, the rest will be donated to charity. Look, Americans right now care about whether they're going to stay in their homes, whether they're going to have a job, whether they're going to be able to keep their health insurance, if we're going to come out of this ditch that we're in. They want change. They want reform. She is a role model to millions and millions and millions of Americans.

MR. BROKAW: I know you were disappointed when Colin Powell last week came on MEET THE PRESS...

SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.

MR. BROKAW: ...and praised you as a friend, a longtime admirer of yours, but said he was going to vote for Barack Obama. And he listed a number of reasons why he was going to do that. There was a pretty sharp reaction across the country, both pro and con, on the part of people who'd been following politics carefully. Here's what Rush Limbaugh had to say on his radio program about the reason that Colin Powell endorsed Barack Obama.

(Videotape)

MR. RUSH LIMBAUGH: It was totally about race. The Powell nomination, or endorsement, total, totally about race.

(End videotape)

MR. BROKAW: Do you agree with Rush Limbaugh?

SEN. McCAIN: No. I'm disappointed in General Powell, but I'm very, very happy to know that five former secretaries of state who I admire enormously--Henry Kissinger, Jim Baker, Larry Eagleburger, Al Hague--Jim Baker, Henry Kissinger, Al Hague, Larry Eagleburger and one other, and over 200 retired flag general--generals and admirals are supporting my campaign. I'm very proud of their support.

MR. BROKAW: Senator, we opened today with a--how you're doing in Iowa. The Des Moines Register has endorsed...

SEN. McCAIN: George Shultz. George Shultz is the other one.

MR. BROKAW: George Shultz, right.

SEN. McCAIN: George, I'm sorry I left you out to start with. George Shultz, the great--one of the great secretaries of state in history. Anyway, go ahead. I'm sorry.

MR. BROKAW: We opened today with, with the poll here in Iowa in which you're trailing by 11 points, according to our NBC/Mason Dixon poll. The Des Moines Register has endorsed Barack Obama as well.

SEN. McCAIN: I'm astonished!

MR. BROKAW: It's the state's largest newspaper.

SEN. McCAIN: Shocked! Shocked!

MR. BROKAW: Now stay with me. Stay with me for a minute here. Here's the Arizona Republic, your largest newspaper in the state of Arizona today. "We have seen the irascible McCain. the bawdy and irreverent McCain. And, yes the temperamental McCain. Likewise, we here in Arizona have seen the former Navy pilot and war hero evolve--slowly and with lots of fits and starts--into a statesmen." That's the Arizona Republic today endorsing you for president. I'm confident...

SEN. McCAIN: God bless the Arizona Republic.

MR. BROKAW: I am confident that you are aware of this, but our viewers probably are not. This is, I would think for you, a very poignant Sunday because it was 41 years ago today that you were shot down on a bombing mission over Hanoi. This is the Associated Press account of that. "October 26th, 1967. Navy fighter pilot John McCain being captured by Vietnamese civilians in Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi, Vietnam." Actually, it's in Hanoi. "McCain was tortured and imprisoned for more than five years, and eventually awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart, Distinguished Flying Cross Medal, and Prisoner of War medal."

A week later, your mother wrote this letter to President Lyndon Johnson. "My dear Mr. President, As the parent of a son who was shot down in Hanoi last week, and is now a prisoner of war, I wonder if you are interested to know that both my husband and I back you and your policies 100 percent in Vietnam? One reads so much of the opinions--of other opinions that I just hope that you and the people really making the sacrifice believe in our country and in you. May Gold bless you and keep you strong in your courage and convictions." That's your mother, Roberta McCain, who is still going strong.

SEN. McCAIN: Ninety-six, still going strong.

MR. BROKAW: For all the obvious reasons, that experience was a defining moment in your life, and you said it changed your attitude toward you are your country's from then on, not your own man. How has this campaign changed you?

SEN. McCAIN: It hasn't changed me. It's made me humble and grateful and aware of the trust and faith and confidence that so many people have in me that it motives me to continue to want to serve my country. But I think it also validates service to country and putting your country first. We're going to do well in this campaign, my friend. We're going to win it, and it's going to be tight, and we're going to be up late; but it will be because there's so many Americans who believe that I can give them the future for themselves and their children and their grandchildren that we all aspire to. And I'm deeply honored.

MR. BROKAW: Four years ago I interviewed President Bush at a time when it looked like he may be in trouble against John Kerry, final weekend of the campaign. I showed him a map. He said, "Oh, I just don't do that. Karl Rove does that." As soon as the interview was over, he said, "I'll win here," and pointed to southeastern Ohio. Where will you win if you win?

SEN. McCAIN: I, I think there are obviously the battleground states that you and the panel are going to be going over right after the segment of the program, and we are very competitive in those areas. And we're going to have to just get out our vote, work hard over the next nine days, and, and make sure that people know that there will be a better future. People are very worried now. Very, very worried, and have every reason to be. I think it's all about who can assure a better future.

MR. BROKAW: Senator McCain, I hope this has been a better Sunday than it was 41 years ago.

SEN. McCAIN: Thank you. And it's good to be with you. And I appreciate your many years of informing the American people. You've come a long way from South Dakota, but you'd never forgot where you came from.

MR. BROKAW: That's true.

SEN. McCAIN: Thank you.

MR. BROKAW: Thanks for being here. Thank you.