Remarks by the Vice President and Liz Cheney at a Campaign Event in Brookfield, Wisconsin

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Good evening, everyone. Good evening.

MR. SYKES: And, Vice President, wel- — welcome back to Wisconsin.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: It is good to be back. You — you know, I — so, Tony Evers.

MR. SYKES: (Laughs.)

THE VICE PRESIDENT: That's funny about his playlist. Is it really that long? (Laughter.)

MR. SYKES: No.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Okay.

Every time I — I land in Wisconsin — almost every time, Tony Evers, the governor, will meet me on the tarmac. And because I did live in Wisconsin when I was five years old, every — (applause) — he will say, "Welcome home." So, I do feel and have a connection to Wisconsin and feel a sense of connection.

MR. SYKES: Actually, we all have connections to Wisconsin, which — which makes this event, I think, so important, with 15 days to go.

So, let's just dive right into all of this. There are actually undecided voters out there.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

MR. SYKES: And there are undecided voters here.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

MR. SYKES: People who have never voted for a Democrat. Moderates, conservatives who voted for people named Bush and Cheney and Ford and Reagan —

MS. CHENEY: Yay. (Claps.) (Laughter.)

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

MR. SYKES: And — and Bob Dole. Wow, that's a — that's throwback, isn't it?

But I guess the question is: What is your pitch to them? Why should they do something they've never done before? Why should they cross over party lines and vote for you?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I start from the belief, based on the lived experience, that the vast majority of us have more in common than what separates us.

I also know that you all are here spending time that you could be spending doing a number of other things, with all of the obligations you each have, and you are here because we, together, love our country. We love our country, and we believe in the foundational principles that are at stake in this election.

I believe that when we think about who we are as the American people, there is more we have in common than what separates us when we think about what is at stake in terms of our democracy, rule of law, the Constitution of the United States, national security, the standing of our country in the context of the world. All of that is at stake.

And I will share with you, Charlie, when I was in the Senate for — for those four years that I was there, my favorite committee was the Senate Intelligence Committee, and I'm going to tell you why. We would walk into that meeting in a SCIF, which is a — a secure room. We'd have to leave our cell phones outside. The press, with all due respect, were not allowed in. No cameras.

People would walk in, Democrats and Republicans, take off their suit jacket, roll up their sleeves, and we'd dispense with who was a Republican and who was a Democrat. We were all Americans. We were all in that room with one singular purpose: to concern ourselves as our highest priority with the security and well-being of the United States of America.

I think those things are at stake in this election. (Applause.)

MR. SYKES: Congresswoman Cheney, you know how hard this is, though. You know how hard it is to break away from tribal loyalty to do something you haven't done before. So, I'd like you to address that as well.

Lindsey Graham was on television yesterday saying, "What do you 'Never Trump' Republicans — you know, what — what are you thinking of? How could you possibly do all of this?"

There are a lot of people who are listening to us who may be disillusioned with what's happening with the Republican Party, but they w- — they don't they — they — they're afraid of paying the price, because there is a cost to all of that.

So, what do you say to those Americans?

MS. CHENEY: Well, don't listen to Lindsey Graham. Number one. (Laughter and applause.) It's good life advice, actually.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: (Laughs.)

MS. CHENEY: But what I say is that, at the — what undergirds everything that we are as a nation — everything that we are as a nation is the rule of law and it's our Constitution.

And when you — when you look at what Donald Trump did after the last election, when you look at the cruelty that's involved in someone who watches an attack on the United States Capitol, an attack conducted by people in his name, and refuses for over three hours to tell the mob to leave — I mean, I really — people just need to think about what that — that — that's — that's depravity. He watched the attack happen, and people kept asking him, "Please tell the people to leave." And law enforcement officers were being brutally beaten and the Capitol was being assaulted, and he would not tell people to leave for over three hours.

That cruelty is the same cruelty that we see when he lies about the federal government's disaster response, when he puts people's lives at risk because he won't tell the truth. He's a man who's unfit to be the president of this good and honorable and great nation.

And so, I've spent a lot of time working — before I was elected to Congress — in countries around the world that — that weren't free or where people were trying to achieve their freedom, and I know how fragile — how fragile this — this can be, how fragile democracy can be.

And so, in — in this election, we have a choice. We have the choice of somebody, in Vice President Harris, who you know is going to uphold the rule of law. You know that she's going to lead this country with a sincere heart. You know that she is going to always be thinking about what is best for this nation. We might not agree on every issue, but — but she is somebody that you can trust and someone that our children can look up to. And I think it's so important for us to cast the vote for Vice President Harris this time around. (Applause.)

MR. SYKES: You know, Vice — Vice President, I w- — I was thinking about one of your social media posts recently where you go through all the things that Donald Trump has bailed out of: that he won't debate you, that he won't — that he won't do interviews, that he's refusing to release certain information. And — and you asked an interesting question: What is he hiding?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

MR. SYKES: So, what, in fact, is he hiding?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I — I wonder what is he hiding. I also wonder what his staff is trying to hide by — by preventing or suggesting he not debate me again, not do these interviews. It is the norm, as you know, that presidential nominees will do a "60 Minutes" interview. He has refused to do that. He is pulling out of interviews left, right, and center.

And I think that we — what we see about him in public, whether it be his rallies or, as you said, the — the — would it — would it be called a — just a solo dance? I — I don't — I — (laughter).

MR. SYKES: I don't know that is has a — I don't even know if it has a name to it.

MS. CHENEY: "Dance" is really generous.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: What — (laughs). Yes.

MR. SYKES: Yeah, the word "dance" would be generous.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: What — what that was.

I — I think it does lead us and it should lead us to observe that he is increasingly unstable.

But you don't have to take my word for it. Listen to the people who know him best, the people who worked with him in the White House, in the Oval Office, in the Situation Room: his former chief of staff; two former secretaries of Defense, his secretaries of Defense; his former national security advisor; and, of course, his former vice president. And they have each talked about the — the chief of staff — that Donald Trump has contempt for the Constitution of the United States.

Not only has that been said by a former chief of staff of the former president, but we know he has openly talked about his intention to terminate the Constitution of the United States.

I have taken that oath six times: as district attorney twice — elected and reelected; as attorney general of the largest state, in California, twice; as a United States senator; and actually now as vice president. And the congresswoman and I have talked about that. That is an oath one must take seriously. It is a duty to defend and honor and uphold the Constitution of the United States.

He has said he would terminate it. Anyone who wants to be president of the United States should never again be able to stand behind the seal of the president of the United States, having said they would terminate the Constitution of the United States. (Applause.)

And, again, most recently, the report is that the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, a decorated general, said of Donald Trump that he is "fascist to the core." These are the people who know him best, people who worked with him.

And so, yes, we can talk about that moment on stage of the music and all that, but I think it's very important that we acknowledge, and I have said publicly, Donald Trump is an unserious man, and the consequences of him ever being president of the United States again are brutally serious — brutally serious.

I — to — to the congresswoman's point, I have now, as vice president of the United States, met over 150 world leaders — presidents, prime ministers, chancellors, and kings — many of them, multiple times; we are on a first-name basis — most of them allies in connection with NATO, and — and I've met with them in connection with our standing, rightly, with Ukraine. The world is watching this election, and our allies are worried, because the reality is that when we, as the United States of America, walk in these rooms around the world, we walk in chin up, shoulders back, with the earned and self-appointed authority to talk about the importance of democracy and rule of law.

And being a role model — this is a room of role models — we know, as a role model, people watch what you do to see if it matches up to what you say.

One of my very real fears, Charlie, to be candid, is I hope that we, as the American people, fully understand how important America is to the world. I hope we really, really understand that — (applause) — because this is about what will happen to and — and with us as Americans, but it will impact people around the world.

MR. SYKES: Let me follow up on that, Congresswoman, because I was on a podcast recently with — with another pundit who was saying that she was afraid that America was sleepwalking into authoritarianism, that American voters were not sufficiently alarmed. And as the vice president just said, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff just said that Donald Trump was the most dangerous threat facing the country.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

MR. SYKES: Do Americans — in this last 15 days, do they understand that? And what has to happen in the next two weeks for them to really understand the danger?

MS. CHENEY: Yeah, I — I think that they — I think they do. And, you know, one of the things I — I remind people is that although not every Republican who is casting a vote for Vice President Harris will say publicly that they are — there's clearly, you know, a threat associated with that in some instances — but — but millions will. And — and they will do that for a whole range of reasons, but — but what you mentioned is so important.

I mean, when I think about — you know, I — the first time I ever voted was for Ronald Reagan. I've known presidents well. Obviously, particularly, I know a vice president well — (laughter) — in addition to Vice President Harris. And — and I watch how our presidents have operated. And even when there have been presidents that we have potentially disagreed with on issues, they've respected the Constitution.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

MS. CHENEY: I mean, think about the 2000 election and how close that was and what Vice President Gore did in — in his concession speech and in ensuring that we had the peaceful transfer of power.

And so, I — I would just urge people — again, you don't have to — to take my word for it, but — but look at what the people closest to Donald Trump are saying about him. Look at the testimony of the leaders of his Justice department, the leaders of his campaign, the most senior officials in his White House. Look at their testimony in front of the Select Committee. You know, they're the ones that — that told us everything that we know about his plan to overturn the last election, about what he did watching the attack from his dining room.

We've never faced a threat like this before, and I — I think it's so important for people to realize this republic only survives if we protect it, and that means putting partisan politics aside and standing up for the Constitution and for what's right and loving our country more. (Applause.)

MR. SYKES: Do — do you — do you think we'll be hearing more from some of those folks in the next 15 days — the generals, the chiefs of staff, the people who really understand exactly how unfit Donald Trump is?

MS. CHENEY: I do. I also think that — you know, that they have been very clear so far.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

MS. CHENEY: I mean, you've had — you've had hundreds of national security officials who served in Republican administrations endorse the vice president —

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Publicly, yeah.

MS. CHENEY: Yeah. And all of the things that — that — you know, the fact that these people aren't endorsing — the fact that Vice President Pence, who was the most loyal person there was to Donald Trump — he won't endorse him because he knows Donald Trump asked him to violate his oath of office.

Now, that should also give you a lot of pause about J.D. Vance. J.D. Vance is there because he will do what Donald Trump wants, and that makes him a particular danger to the republic as well.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: And — and I'll add to that point: Understand also what happened in the last few months when the Supreme Court essentially told the former president he will be immune from anything he does in office. So, whereas, before, there was at least some threat of consequence and accountability, that no longer exists.

And to the congresswoman's point, imagine Donald Trump — based on everything we know about him and everything we see now and before — imagine him with no guardrails, because all of those folks who worked with him before, they're not — those who held him back, who attempted to ensure that he would follow the law are no longer there. And — and we have the Supreme Court decision, so the stakes are very high.

MR. SYKES: Okay. Let's go to the audience for some questions. We — we have some undecided voters who have some questions for you, Madam Vice President.

Let's go to Lisa Brockman from Madison. Lisa is a small-business owner.

Q: Hi.

MR. SYKES: Good evening.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Hi.

Q: Thanks for taking my question. I have a question on reproductive freedom.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

Q: And I am — come from a conservative, Christian, pro-life family, and I was a Republican until Donald Trump's presidency. (Laughs.) Like most Americans, I believe in a woman's right to choose. And with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, my 21-year-old daughter now has fewer rights than her mother or her grandmothers.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

Q: I no longer recognize the Republican Party. They have introduced bills for everything from restricting birth control to bringing homicide charges for abortion. It is such an extreme, radical agenda by any standards, and it seems less about the unborn and more about controlling women.

So, my question is: What are your thoughts on this extremism, and how can we restore those fundamental human rights that have been taken away from the American women?

MR. SYKES: Thank you.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So, to your point, when Donald Trump was president, he hand-selected three members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention that they would undo the protections of Roe, and they did as he intended. And now there are at least 20 states in our country that have criminalized health care providers, to your point.

I mean, in Texas, the — the law provides for prison for life for a doctor, nurse, health care provider for doing what they believe is health care and in the best interest of their patient.

Punishing women. I was actually just this week, just a few days ago, in the state of Georgia with the mother of a young woman who died because of Georgia's abortion ban, and she had to go to another state. And it's a long and very tragic story that did not have to be.

And here's how I think about this issue. One does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree that the government — these folks in a state capitol, much less Donald Trump — should not be making this decision for her. If she chooses, she will talk with her priest, her pastor, her rabbi, her imam, but not the government.

And — and I also have found, though, since the two years that the Dobbs decision came down, that this happened, I have had conversations with a number of people who were opposed to abortion and remain opposed to it but did not intend for the harm that we are seeing to happen. And I think as this has — this decision came down and we are seeing the harm, there are more and more people who are agreeing that this should not be the government making this decision for women and their families.

And the way that we will address this is, eventually, Congress needs to pass a law restoring those protections, and we need to agree that, in our society, you know, we should not have laws that are treating people in a way that is causing such harm.

I'll give you another example of the harm that is going on. I started my career as a prosecutor. I have prosecuted everything from low-level offenses to homicides. But one of the reasons I became a prosecutor is because, when I was in high school, I learned that my best friend was being molested by her stepfather. And so, I said to her, "You have to come live with us." I called my mother. My mother said, "Of course," and she did. And I made a decision early in my life that I wanted to do the work that was about protecting vulnerable people.

There are some of these bans that include no exception for rape or incest. I have specialized in those kinds of cases. And the — the notion that we would tell a survivor of a crime that is a violation to their body that they have no right to make a decision about what happens to their body next — I mean, I think that's just unconscionable. I think it's immoral.

And so, this is one of the issues that is at play. And when this issue has been on the ballot, since the Dobbs decision came down, in so-called red states and so-called blue states, the American people have voted for freedom. (Applause.)

MR. SYKES: Congresswoman Cheney, I'd like to get your thoughts on this as well.

MS. CHENEY: Yeah. You know, I am — I'm pro-life, and I have been very troubled, deeply troubled by what I have watched happen in so many states since Dobbs. And I have been troubled by the extent to which you have women who, as the vice president said, in some cases, have died, who can't get medical treatment that they need because providers are worried about criminal liability.

You know, we're facing a situation today where I think that it's an untenable one. And I think that as we deal with issues like this one, having a president who understands how important compassion is, who understands that these shouldn't be political issues, that we ought to be able to have these discussions and say: You know what? Even if you are pro-life, as I am, I do not believe, for example, that the state of Texas ought to have the right, as they're currently suing to do, to get access to women's medical records.

I mean, there are some very fundamental and fundamentally dangerous things that have happened. And — and so, I think that it's crucially important for us to find ways to have the federal government play a role and protect women from some of the worst harms that we're seeing.

But — but, again, I just think that if you look at the difference in — in the way that Donald Trump is handling this issue — you know, Donald Trump, at one point, called for criminal penalties for women. Now, you know, he — he's been now trying to — to, you know, sort of be all over the place on this issue, although he expresses great pride for what's happened.

And — and I think the — the bottom line on this, as on so many other issues, is, you know, you just can't count on him. You cannot trust him. We've seen the man that he is. We've seen the cruelty. And America deserves much better. (Applause.)

MR. SYKES: Thank you. Thank you, Lisa.

So, we — we have another question. Carolyn Mitchell from Wauwatosa has a question for the vice president as well.

Q: Hi. I have concerns about the strength and the health of the Medicare and the Social Security system. There have been a lot of suggestions for improving or protecting it, some of them raising the age for full acceptance of Social Security. There's also the idea that we would end the cap on — on the Social Security tax. There is also the suggestion that we raise the tax rate on both Medicare and Social Security. And, of course, the last one is to reduce the benefits.

So, my question for you is: How can we protect the health of both Social Security and Medicare without reducing the benefits?

MR. SYKES: Thank you.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So, first of all, thank you for your question. Actually, just today, I believe it was — within the last 24 hours or so — an independent review of Donald Trump's policy on Social Security has indicated that, under his policy, Social Security would become insolvent in six years.

And what I and you and, I think, most of us know is that we have many, many seniors in our country where their Social Security check is their only form of income. It's everything and the only thing they have to live on, to pay rent, groceries, all of that. And so, we must protect Social Security.

If you look at Donald Trump's Project 2025, the — the plan that they have if he is elected — or reelected president, it — it would attack Social Security. It would attack Medicare.

And back to the point about just what is in the interest of dignity. The president of the United States should have as one of their highest concerns the dignity of the American people and, in particular, those who have lived a productive life, who deserve to be able to retire and go into their senior years with the dignity of not worrying about whether they're going to have a roof over their head or be able to eat.

So, my plan includes what we need to do to strengthen the solvency of Social Security. It includes what we're going to need to do and work with Congress to make sure we're putting more into it. And it cannot be about cutting benefits, because right now, those benefits are barely adequate as it is.

What we must also do is continue to strengthen Medicare around what we've been working on, which is to allow Medicare to negotiate prescription medication costs for our seniors.

So, in the last four years, we have now capped the cost of insulin at $35 a month for seniors. This is a huge issue for so many who have otherwise either taken a bus trip to Canada to try and get their prescription medication — you're smiling; you know what I'm talking about — or — not that you have; I'm not suggesting that. (Laughter.) I'm not suggesting that. And we've also capped the cost of — of prescription medication at $2,000 a year for our seniors, understanding, again, that this is a related issue, which is what is causing our seniors to be on the verge of bankruptcy and — and homelessness, by the way.

The other work that we have to do is to deal with home health care and how Medicare is covering that.

So, part of my plan is — right now, the only way that there will be coverage for home health care is, generally speaking, Medicaid, which means that the family or the individual would have to spend down all of their savings to be able to be eligible for Medicaid. And, frankly, I think it's just — that's — that's wrong, and it's — it's just wrong.

You know, I took care of my mother when she was sick, and the work that needs to happen to support our seniors to be able to stay in their home, to be able to live a life with dignity should include that we will pay attention to the fact that not everybody can afford that help, not everyone has a family member who can do it.

And so, my plan includes having Medicare cover home health care work for seniors — (applause) — so that you can stay in your home, for example, and have someone who can prepare a meal and help you put on a sweater. But the — the core point being dignity and understanding that we should not have a society that allows or requires our seniors to — to go into poverty in order to qualify for the care that they may need that, I think, we — most would agree — should provide. (Applause.)

Thank you.

MR. SYKES: And we have another question from the audience, from Dan — Dan Voboril, who is a retired school teacher, taught at MPS, and now lives in Waukesha. Again, a genuinely undecided voter, I understand.

Q: Thank you. Good evening.

MS. CHENEY: Come on, Dan. (Laughter.)

Q: What did you say?

I was told I was going to be an alternate, so I was a little worried about getting my question. But —

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Take your time. Take your time.

Q: This is a question that — I actually retired from MPS, but I currently teach, and I teach at a private Catholic school. I'm a Catholic, but I've also been pro-life, pro-choice depending. But I have five daughters, and I think it's my duty to continue — with the children I teach as well — to see that we need to respect women, and I've really come to the conclusion that this toxicity that exists is just rather embarrassing. And as a lifelong Republican, who I thought your father would be a great president —

MS. CHENEY: Thank you.

Q: — not to say George wasn't, but — (laughter) — but I've come to this realization, and it's — it's been very difficult. So, I'm just — my big question was, for the future of my children and also students that I encounter and try to show that we have to have some kind of civility like we did back in the — the '80s, when Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill, of course, could talk about things and solve problems, and now it's trying to get one better than the other.

And so, I'm just wondering, in your position now, how to convince people like me, who some of my siblings might be questioning what I'm doing here, but — (laughter) — I — I think, like you said, we have to be courageous, and that's what I'm trying to be. And so, what do you think we can do in the last 15 days — or you can, Madam Vice President — what you can do to try to get some of these people to cross over? I know you already said that some of them probably won't say who they're voting for, but — or something I could take with me to say, "This sounds very good," or, "We got to at least listen to this."

MR. SYKES: To reduce the toxicity? Is that —

Q: Yes.

MR. SYKES: Okay.

MS. CHENEY: Yeah, I — I think that — that, you know, you've really put your finger on something that's so important, and you see it as a teacher. You know, any of us who are around young children — I see it as a mom. My kids aren't so young anymore, but — but, you know, the — when they look at how elected officials and, in particular, how Donald Trump is conducting himself now, that's — that's not — that's not a lesson that anybody would look up to.

And — and I think about it often from the perspective of the men and women who've worn the uniform of our country and who have sacrificed so much for our freedom, all of us have an obligation to be worthy of that sacrifice.

And in this — (applause) — you know, in this moment, there — there are millions of good and honorable people who Donald Trump has just fundamentally betrayed. And — and I think it's so important for — for people to think about this from the perspective of, you know, the decision to give somebody the power of the presidency means that you're handing someone the most awesome and significant power of any office anywhere in the world, and — and you have to choose people who have character, choose people of good faith.

You know, the — the framers knew this. The framers knew that — that it was so important that, you know, we take an oath but that also, fundamentally, you had to have people of character. And Donald Trump has proven he's not one of those people by his actions.

So, you know, what I — what I say to people is, look, for us to get back to a time where we are actually having policy debates and discussions and disagreements, we have to protect what undergirds all of this, and — and what undergirds all of it is the Constitution. And we have to be willing to say, as a nation, "We're better than partisanship."

We know — and I say this as someone who spent a lot of years engaged in partisan battles and — and there are important debates we have to have. But if — if we allow someone again — if we give him the power again to, you know, do all of the things he tells us he's going to do — he says he'll terminate the Constitution; he says he'll deploy the military against the "enemy within" — that — that is a risk that we just simply can't take as a nation. And — and I think that, you know, this vote, this election cycle, this time around has to be about so much more than partisanship.

And I will just end this by saying: And I also know because I have spent time with Vice President Harris, because I have come to understand what she believes about how she will govern, that she will be a president for all Americans, that she's committed to listening and committed to having viewpoints, some of which, you know, come from different ends of the political spectrum.

And — and if you think about how you conduct, you know, your life outside of politics, how we all conduct our everyday lives, those are the kinds of people that you trust. Those are the kinds of people you can work with. Like, if you wouldn't — if you wouldn't hire somebody to babysit your kids, like, you shouldn't make that guy the president of the United States. (Laughter and applause.) I mean, that's, like, pretty basic.

MR. SYKES: So — so —

MS. CHENEY: Thank you. Thank you.

MR. SYKES: Madam Vice President, that — this question goes to the heart of our discussion tonight, because it's almost — it is not about politics. It's not about left versus right. We're talking about the culture and the impact, the coarsening of the culture, the way in which we have been taught to fear and hate one another, and how our —

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

MR. SYKES: — debates have just devolved into sort of trolling one another. How do we get back from that?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So, I think that Dan raised — and, Charlie, your point is — is really also hitting on we have to tap into and — and rejoice, frankly, in the spirit of who we are as Americans. And we are an ambitious people. We have aspirations. We have dreams. We are optimistic by nature. And we, I think, value certain qualities in our leaders.

To your point as — being a teacher, all of — those of us who are parents or parent in any form, the — the notion over the last several years coming from Trump and those who follow him, meaning people like who he's running with — not his voters, but just others — the notion that the measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you beat down is just wrongheaded.

I think most of us would agree that the — that the real measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you lift up. I think most of us would agree — (applause) — and most of us would agree that it is — when we talk about character, it is the sign of strong character to have empathy, to have some level of concern and care about the well-being of other people and then to do something about that.

And I think there's so much about this election that calls into question whether we are on a track with a Donald Trump as president to actually teach and to — and to show our children our definition of a leader, and is that it.

One of the issues that I think has resulted in the kind of toxicity that you have been describing is that he tends to encourage us as Americans to point our fingers at each other. That's not in our best interest. The vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us.

We are stronger as a nation when we are working toward a common goal, at least on the most basic, fundamental priorities.

And I think in this election, you can look at, for example, how he presents in his — in his events to know that he really does not have a plan for America that is about investing in our future, investing in our children, investing in — in our economies and new industries, investing in our relationships around the world. It's all about himself and his personal grievances. And do we want a president of the United States who spends full time plotting revenge while they sit in the Oval Office or a president who is actually focused on the American people?

I would also say, as a — as a point that I think the congresswoman exemplifies in so many ways, the strength of our democracy requires a strong two-party system. It really does. (Applause.) It requires that we have healthy debate — that we have healthy debate based on — you know, based in logic and fact and that we — we debate it out — have good, vigorous debates — have a good fight over policy. That's good for democracy. But not to point our fingers and call each other names over trivial, petty grievances.

So, I think all of that is at stake in this election, and — and tapping into the commonalities that we have around some of these fundamental principles, I think, is going to be key.

MR. SYKES: Well, that's why the stakes are so high, right? Because the presidency is a role model, but America is a role model to the rest of the world.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

MR. SYKES: So, in the very short amount of time we have left, Congresswoman Cheney, just talk a little bit more about the — the stakes for the world. We haven't talked about the stakes for the future of Ukraine, NATO, of all the other democracies who are looking to us.

MS. CHENEY: They're so, so high, Charlie. And, you know, America's safety and security depends upon America leading, and it depends upon allies.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

MS. CHENEY: And when you have someone who is erratic and chaotic and unstable, that puts all of us at risk.

I — I tell people often — you know, I spend a lot of time working on national security issues. And when people that I know in the — in the Republican Party tell me they might be considering voting for Trump from a national security perspective, I ask them: Go look at his national security policies. Please, go look at them, because what he's proposing in terms of withdrawing from NATO; welcoming Vladimir Putin to attack our NATO Allies; praising — he — he praises Kim Jong Un, the leader of North Korea, and President Xi of China and Putin of Russia. And if you listen to him, he doesn't just praise those people generally. He praises them for their cruelty —

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yep.

MS. CHENEY: — for their tyranny.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yep.

MS. CHENEY: That's not who we are as a nation. It's not who we are.

And the world needs us to be better. And our own security and our own freedom requires that we have a president who understands America has to lead and that our strength comes both from our greatness and also from our goodness. And that's Vice President Harris. (Applause.)

MR. SYKES: And you have the last word.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: And — and just to — thank you. Thank you.

MR. SYKES: You get the last word.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: But — but just as a point of emphasis on this important point: Understand that this is an individual, Donald Trump, who is easily manipulated by flattery, and we've seen that. We've — don't forget he — he dared to even consider vi- — inviting the Taliban to Camp David. Remember all this. The love letters with Kim Jong Un.

Let's remember what we just most recently — what was reported. During the height of COVID, Americans were dying by the hundreds a day. Nobody could get their hands on COVID tests. You remember what that was. During that time, he secretly sent COVID tests to Vladimir Putin for his personal use.

On the issue of Ukraine, he says, "Oh, well, I'd solve that in a day." Well, I don't think we as Americans think that the president of the United States should solve an issue like that through surrender, and understand that's what would happen. (Applause.) Understand that's what would happen. Vladimir Putin would be sitting in Kyiv if Donald Trump were president.

And understand what that means as — so much that our allies understand, and that's why they're concerned about this election. If — if Putin were to get away with invading the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine because America, the leader in bringing the allies together in standing for fundamental international rules and norms, like sovereignty and territorial integrity — if Vladimir Putin got away with that, you think he wouldn't march next right into Poland and the rest of Europe? Because Donald Trump wants to please somebody that he considers to be a strongman, who he admires?

So, on this and so many issues, the stakes are extremely high.

But I — I would say this as — as a final point for now. This is not as much an issue of what we are against as what we are for. And I'll end my point where I started: We love our country, and our country is worth fighting for. (Applause.) And that's how I think of this.

We — our — our democracy will only be as strong as our willingness to fight for it. And you all are taking your time out of your lives to be here because we, I think, agree on that among the most fundamental principles at stake.

And I thank you for the time you've taken, and I hope to earn your vote, by the way. (Laughs.) (Applause.)

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

MR. SYKES: And we have 15 days to make a decision.

Thank you all for coming here to (inaudible). Thank you, Congresswoman Liz Cheney. Vice President Kamala Harris, thank you so much. (Applause.)